Looking for a euphonium for my sister

[euphomate]

IMHO, the best horn for the money is STILL the YEP-321 Yamaha. Get the silver. CAll http://www.hornguys.com" target="_blank" target="_blank

But remember that the YEP-321 will only take a small shank mouthpiece. This eliminates some good mouthpieces available for euphoniums.

[Bob Kolada]

IMHO, the best horn for the money is STILL the YEP-321 Yamaha. Get the silver. CAll http://www.hornguys.com" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank

But remember that the YEP-321 will only take a small shank mouthpiece. This eliminates some good mouthpieces available for euphoniums.

However, most of the popular mouthpieces are available in small shank and it's supposedly an easy swap out as well.

[pgym]

IMHO, the best horn for the money is STILL the YEP-321 Yamaha. Get the silver. CAll http://www.hornguys.com" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank

But remember that the YEP-321 will only take a small shank mouthpiece. This eliminates some good mouthpieces available for euphoniums.

However, most of the popular mouthpieces are available in small shank and it's supposedly an easy swap out as well.

I guess it depends on what one considers the "most popular mouthpieces."

Though perhaps not as popular in the US as in Western Europe, I suspect that, worldwide, Wicks of various description are at least in the conversation when it comes to the "most popular" euphonium mouthpieces. The Wick 3, however, isn't available in small shank, nor are the 4A cup (the 4AY cup is shallower, and the 4AY has a narrower throat and a different backbore), 4AB, 4.5A, 5A, 5AB or any of the Steve Mead (SM) models.

and it's supposedly an easy swap out as well.

A competent tech should be able to swap the leadpipe without much difficulty, provided that: a) you can obtain a replacement large shank leadpipe, b) at a reasonable cost.

[cdtuba]

Thanks for the help so far, guys!

I don't think the shank will be much of a deal breaker with my sis. The only thing she says is that she wants a compensating euph of her own. The general feeling I am getting from the majority of people I have asked is to get a Yamaha.


Another question on euphoniums. Do they come pitched in different keys like tubas do?

[Carroll]

Another question on euphoniums. Do they come pitched in different keys like tubas do?

not in the mainstream.

[oedipoes]

[quote="cdtuba"]Thanks for the help so far, guys!
The only thing she says is that she wants a compensating euph of her own. The general feeling I am getting from the majority of people I have asked is to get a Yamaha.
[quote]

I played the yamahas on several occasions, I found they played really well, but I did not like my sound on them very much.
But sound is personal, so your sister could as well like it.
It's a fair price for a compensating euphonium, so she should try it. Built quality was first-class.

Wim

[pgym]

Thanks for the help so far, guys!
The only thing she says is that she wants a compensating euph of her own. The general feeling I am getting from the majority of people I have asked is to get a Yamaha.

A compensating euph will likely be overkill for a non-performance music major.

As to Yamaha comp euphs, the build quality is impeccable, BUT new horns Yamahas are typically more expensive than the equivalent Meinl-Westons (YEP-642 || MW 451; YEP-842 || MW 551). Given that:

we have experience with is Meinl Weston, the company that made my tuba, and my parents say there is no way she's getting one of those,

because

My parents just don't want to spend a bucket load of cash when we have no clue what my sis will do in school,

if your sister wants/insists on a new horn, she may well need to lower her sights and settle for a good name brand non-comp horn or go with a no-name Chinese/Indian/Brazilian stencil horn. Even used YEP-641s and 642s rarely sell on ebay for less than $2500, which, depending on your parents' budget, may or may not be do-able.

[Dean]

Whatever your sister gets, make sure it's USED.

If you get a good deal, she can always sell it later for a zero sum loss. I had a student that moved away and quit playing a year later. He decided to sell his Yamaha 321 and even managed to get an extra $100 over what his parents paid for it.

A good used horn (bought at a fair price) will not decrease in value--with the understanding that it will be properly cared for and kept in nearly the same condition it was in when it was bought! It makes your sister's "up-in-the-air" decision of what major she wants much easier--there is little financial risk this way!

Will she be attending WVU? Class of 2000 here--I had an awesome time there!

[oedipoes]

I'd throw in a recommendation for the Nirschl i700 non-compensating or the i800 compensating euphoniums. These are a lot better than the Jupiter and Eastman euphs and quite a bit cheaper than the European 'artist' euphoniums.

I don't know if you could win the Marine Band Audition on a Nirschl but then, your sister is not auditioning for the Marine Band.

For plain cheap, the Tuba Exchange non-compensating euphonium ain't half bad.

Nothing I've seen priced lower has been any good.

Mmm, played them in Frankfurt but put them back after some minutes...
Didn't like sound nor valve action, would rather play a second hand European 'artist' euphonium... (willsons are really good!)
Just my opinion.

Wim

[WC8KCY]

Seems to me the sensible choice would be something like a Yamaha 321 for now. If she goes on to be a music major, a comp horn could then be carefully selected with the guidance of her instructors there--quite possibly avoiding a costly mistake. The 321 could then be sold, or used as a backup/marching horn.

When I got my 321S back in '94, I wasn't satisfied with the usual tenor-shank mouthpiece choices that I was able to audition (Bach 6 1/2AL; Schilke 51D) and custom-ordered a Schilke 58 mouthpiece in tenor shank. For me, it's a perfect match for my 321S. So equipped, the horn is a real monster in the lowest registers--the low C above pedal Bb speaks with real authority, and the false 2-3 B-natural above pedal is quite usable. Playing within and above the staff, the horn can blow the roof off. My only regret with the horn is not getting the add-on 5th valve when I had the chance.

Interestingly, when I went off to college as a Music major, I was fully prepared to upgrade to a comp horn. My instructors insisted that I stick with the 321S.

[cdtuba]

Will she be attending WVU? Class of 2000 here--I had an awesome time there!

My parents are assuming she will, especially since she has been doing exactly what I have done, or a slight variation of it.


Its nice to see a fellow Mountaineer here. Expected Class of 2013 here.


A trip to Baltimore Brass is being arranged because when I was shopping for tubas, the best thing was to spend an afternoon and just try stuff out. Plus it gives me an excuse to go mute/mouthpiece shopping

[sloan]

Will she be attending WVU? Class of 2000 here--I had an awesome time there!

My parents are assuming she will, especially since she has been doing exactly what I have done, or a slight variation of it.


Its nice to see a fellow Mountaineer here. Expected Class of 2013 here.


A trip to Baltimore Brass is being arranged because when I was shopping for tubas, the best thing was to spend an afternoon and just try stuff out. Plus it gives me an excuse to go mute/mouthpiece shopping

Let me make it simple for you (I've been down this road - buying a euph for someone else and not being saddled with my own prejudices about euphs, since I don't really play it, myself).

a) play, side-by-side, two Yamaha euphs: 321 and 641. Decide which one fits your budget/aspirations/current abilities, etc. My bet is that you will find that the 321 is more than adequate.

b) once you have decided on the Yamaha 321 vs 641 question - play everything else you can find that is in the SAME class. If you decide on the 321, play a lot of non-compensating euphs. If the 641 - play the compensating ones.

c) look at the marketplace, and your (parents') budget, and decide "new vs. used".
If "new" - buy one from Baltimore Brass (as long as you are there). If "used", - buy one from Baltimore Brass (as long as you are there).

Done!

When I thought this out about 8 years ago, the conclusions I reached are:

I. if the player doesn't already have a strong preference, your best bet is to purchase
a Yamaha from one of the 2-4 "well known reputable dealers". You can do that with complete confidence that the horn will sound OK, will meet your needs, and you will get a fair price (perhaps not the "best" price - but sometimes the "best" price can be expensive).

II. If the player is still in High School, and is not already preparing to take auditions with a DC Service Band, then a non-compensating (i.e., 321) 4-inline valve euph is
a euph that can be used for 50 years with no regrets and no need to "upgrade". It's also less likely to be trashed in a High School Band Camp incident.

III. If the player is in College, reasonably serious and committed, and you can afford it, a compensating (i.e., 641) 3+1 euph is a reasonable choice. Again - it will last for 50 years and never need replacement.

IV. It's better to buy an excellent instrument "used" than a second-rate instrument "new". The problem, of course, is that excellent instruments don't come on the used market quite as often as second-rate instruments. Second-rate instruments give 5 years of service before they are replaced/upgraded. Excellent instruments give 50 years of service and then move on to another home when you retire from active playing.

All of which, when applied to your situation, means:

Buy a Yamaha 321 from Dillon or Baltimore. New or used, according to your budget.
Visit if there are other reasons to visit (such as: mute shopping). Otherwise, just pick up the phone.

This may not be the ABSOLUTELY BEST answer to your question - but it has zero probability of being a BAD answer.

Next question.

[elimia]

One thing to remember with some of the compensating euphoniums - they will require the dedication to build the wind strength to support the sound, esp. for the Yamaha 641 and 642 (been there, done that). Some folks get into one of these comps and can get discouraged because the wind differences are substantial from the 321.

I'd still recommend a Yamaha 321, a Weril. Perhaps a used older compensating Besson (1970s model).

[cdtuba]

I think we have decided to check out some of the 321s.


Thanks for all the help, guys!

[ken k]

I think we have decided to check out some of the 321s.


Thanks for all the help, guys!

I think this is a good idea. If she does decide to get super serious about her playing once in college, and is working with a euph prof, then she can make a much better informed decision on which high end euph to purchase and find one that will fit her playing style.

ken k

[MaryAnn]

Hi-
Buy a Schiller 4v lacquer comp euph from Jim Laabs Music for $885 plus shipping--it is an exact copy of a Yamaha 642. I have one and it is excellent. Two pros have Willsons and they like my horn better--in fact, one ordered one of these! The trombone section here in Buffalo checked mine out--I brought it in while filling in for Don for a week and they checked it out--they loved it, and least one-maybe all of them-will be ordering the Schiller euph. Without a doubt the best buy on the planet--along with the Schiller CC tuba also! My 2 cents.
Regards-
mark
jonestuba@juno.com" target="_blank" target="_blank

There are two solid reasons why I have not done this:

1. They do not allow playtests, only "exchanges." In other words, once they have your money, even if they send you a POS, your money is gone; best case is you pay so much in shipping back and forth to get a good one that you might as well have just bought a plane ticket or gotten a more expensive one to start with.

2. When I google the name of the store that sells these, the feedback from customers is very, very bad. If I google other music stores....I see nothing of the sort; so I'm not trying to lambast this store...I'm just reporting what google tells me.

Can someone give me a reason to ignore those two things?

MA

[bisontuba]

Hi-
All I can say is that the horns play great--and others who have tried them say the same thing. I can't say why some people have written negative things about the store--is it re. the brass products, or possibly about other products they sell--or might it be for other reasons. As far as the return rules, if it is a problem, I believe you can exchange the item--so if one instrument had a problem, you could exchange it for another one.
Personally, I like horns that play great and are inexpensive--if you would rather go the more traditional route, best of luck. Good luck.
mark

[Ace]

My experience with Schiller horns is limited to the CC tuba and the Eb alto valved trombone. Both are of excellent quality. I paid under $2,000 (including shipping) for the tuba, and the price of the alto trombone was around $359 as I recall. These are very good instruments and sound great. I would not hesitate to buy the Schiller euphonium at $885 if I had a use for it. I'd bet it is a horn similar in quality to the other two Schillers I bought.

I got both my Schillers from a dealer in Wisconsin and was treated with courtesy and professionalism. I did see some negative statements on the internet about this dealer. I have no way of knowing with certainty, but my impression was that here's another customer who perhaps creates his own problems.

Here's a pic of my Schiller CC and alto trombone. The Schiller CC is on the left of my wonderful Gerhard Schneider CC. The alto is in the foreground of my 4-rotary valve Cerveny Bb tenor trombone and Jupiter C valved trombone.