Da Weatherman Sez...

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Donn
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Re: Da Weatherman Sez...

Post by Donn »

bloke wrote: "Man-made global warming" is one of many continuously-created sacraments of a 19th-Century-established religion, rather than having anything to do with "science". Most all of these continuously-created sacraments are either repressive or death-embracing in motive. Those associated with this religion will always chime in and a defend the sacraments.
The thing is, our religion can really make glaciers retreat, polar ice caps disappear. Better do what we say, or we'll make the waters rise.

Well, the waters will rise, at this point I gather it's just a question of how much. But don't worry, it will take some years, and in the mean time I'm sure you and your friends will help keep the world safe from the conspiracy of repressive, death-embracing scientists by posting reports on the occasion of every low tide.
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Re: Da Weatherman Sez...

Post by Donn »

If it's any consolation, out here in cold, gray Seattle it's practically spring - garden peas are already a couple inches tall, it has been over 50 every day lately and sort of vaguely sunny. The south has really been taking it in the shorts - while I would never suggest that someone should come here to get away from the rain, last summer it would sure have been a good idea, and this winter it looks like we may get through without any snow to speak of, though of course there's no guarantee. (I didn't plant the peas, they're volunteers.)
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Re: Da Weatherman Sez...

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bloke wrote:The point is that every example that anyone can pull out of their butt is isolated...as are daily weather reports.
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Re: Da Weatherman Sez...

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bloke wrote:it was my understanding that the coastal Pacific Northwest usually experienced highs in the upper 80's during most of the summer and highs in the upper 50's during most of the winter...Was/is that not the case...??
Not really - we might break 50 once in a while, but not upper 50s in the winter months. (Nor upper 80s until the very peak of summer.) This was the warmest January on record, 2006 was the second warmest. Not that this proves anything, of course. What's going on here right now is a Pacific cycle, El Niño or one of that sort, that brings wet, warm winters for a couple years. This will no doubt tie into global climate trends - duration and severity of these events might change, for example - but it seems like it would be easy to be wrong about that.
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Re: Da Weatherman Sez...

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bloke wrote:Its becoming less...and less...and less...and less...and less isolated.
You've GOT to be kidding me. It's winter, Bloke. Snow falls in winter, sometimes in places where it normally doesn't. In March of 1993, Atlanta, GA received 13" of snow. Snow in Atlanta as uncommon? No doubt, but it's not out of the range of possibility. Warmer weather is more common too, Bloke. In Bozeman, we've had relatively pleasant weather this winter, warmer than average.

Believe your conspiracy stories. Believe that governments are pushing global warming or global climate change as a means to control the populace. (Some would argue that religion, in ALL of it's forms (e.g., Christianity, Judaism, Islam, etc.) was meant to do much the same thing.) Believe that hundreds of thousands of scientists across the globe are involved in the conspiracy to rob you of your personal freedoms. Believe whatever the hell you want to. To claim that severe winter weather is becoming less and less isolated during the winter months is ridiculous. Of course winter weather is going to be more common during the winter months; what would you expect?

A global conspiracy by governments the world over meant to subjugate the populace and rob you of your freedoms? Pshaw. :roll:
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Re: Da Weatherman Sez...

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bloke wrote:...an anomaly of FORTY-NINE STATES WITH SNOW ON THE GROUND
An anomaly does not equal does not equal complete dismissal of scientific evidence as has been suggested by most commentators on the mouth-flatulence that is most of the commentators on Faux News. See outliers. A general trend in the increase of global temperatures does not mean that every year will always be warmer than the last. :shock:

The implication of your argument is that those who agree with the scientific evidence of global warming is that we're all "sheeple," to use the parlance of the conspiracy theorist, and that we're all fans of big-gubmint. I won't argue that "cap and trade" isn't a good way to address increasing carbon emissions. What is a good alternative? I don't know.

All you do anymore regarding this thread is post links to daily weather reports and cold-weather storms. I would argue that news reports of daily weather and cold-weather storms are not scientific evidence. The evidence you have against global warming is anecdotal; as has been mentioned several times on TubeNet, the plural of anecdote is not data. Scientists don't deny that the science could be wrong. However, the global analysis done by thousands of independent laboratories suggests that temperatures are rising and will continue to do so.

Are those who hold your point of view wrong? Maybe. Are the scientists who have analyzed the data and those of us who "buy into" global warming wrong? Maybe. This is a pointless argument to have, especially because it's doubtful that believers on either side of the argument are going to sway the opinions of those on the other side of the argument.

Steven "about to shred two pork shoulders that have been smoking at 225 F for six hours" Ranney
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Re: Da Weatherman Sez...

Post by Donn »

bloke wrote:so I must (for the sake of my offspring and for the sake of sanity) resist their lack of restraint"
This is what it comes down to on both sides, though. We could wait and see, but if you're wrong and all those scientists turn out to be doing their job, it will be super bad news for your offspring. I mean, you call us `death embracing', but only someone who expects us all to be transported off to heaven before then wouldn't be concerned about the future facing kids born today in the global warming scenario, and every day we deny and delay makes it worse. "The scientists might be wrong" seems like a bad bet in this case, for someone who cares about offspring.

But that's why this topic is clearly politics, and follows the usual political lines.
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Re: Da Weatherman Sez...

Post by bisontuba »

Joe-
I heard a rumor that Sarah Palin has each day's weather report written on the palms of her hands...
Regards from the 'Miami of the North'--Buffalo..
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Re: Da Weatherman Sez...

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bloke wrote:(Yes, I'm completely aware that MMGW is one of your Holy Sacraments, and I do not expect you to accept this report, but) I do request that you two-or-three READ THIS...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... nised.html
The academic at the centre of the ‘Climategate’ affair, whose raw data is crucial to the theory of climate change, has admitted that he has trouble ‘keeping track’ of the information.
-------------------------
Colleagues say that the reason Professor Phil Jones has refused Freedom of Information requests is that he may have actually lost the relevant papers.
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Professor Jones also conceded the possibility that the world was warmer in medieval times than now – suggesting global warming may not be a man-made phenomenon.
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And he said that for the past 15 years there has been no ‘statistically significant’ warming.
Again, REGARDLESS of anyone's agendas or religious beliefs - and no matter how much THE truth is ridiculed or how much truth-tellers are punished and demeaned, THE truth is THE truth.

truth-tellers of the past: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Rose
Bloke, you should be in politics! You've selected only those quotes that fit your argument. Impressive. Here are some more:
[Professor Jones] further admitted that in the last 15 years there had been no ‘statistically significant’* warming, although he argued this was a blip rather than the long-term trend.
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[The BBC's environmental analyst] told Radio 4’s Today programme that, despite the controversies, there still appeared to be no fundamental flaws in the majority scientific view that climate change was largely man-made.
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...[C]olleagues of Professor Jones [say] that his strengths included integrity and doggedness...
On a further note, I would bet that the majority of college professors have record keeping that
is not as good as it should be.
Bloke, no one knows what THE TRUTH is. A few posts ago, you said that both you and I could be wrong, yet you continue to claim your views as TRUTH. I call BS. Unless you have some divine knowledge, give your TRUTH telling a rest.

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* The phrase "statistically significant" has a very specific statistical meaning. Unless you know what it means, do not try to argue that Dr. Jones has just said that there has been no warming since 1995.
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Re: Da Weatherman Sez...

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bloke wrote: Donn, let me ask it to you virtually the same way you asked it to me:

What if "made-made global warming" DOESN'T exist? Can we afford to spend several trillions of dollars (thus destroying our economic system, our personal freedoms, and all that we and our ancestors have toiled over ...


OK, let's start with that, the economic impact. Largely, we're talking about reduced use of fossil fuels. Well, yeah - our economic system is based on unsustainable exploitation of fossil fuel, so like it or not, we're going to have to face this some day, and the sooner, the less catastrophic. So on this point, we can't afford not to. I mean, seriously, oil and coal aren't being created at the rate we burn them, correct? I know just the word "sustainable" makes me a commie, but how was I going to fool you anyway.

Will our economy be eviscerated by this change? I don't accept that premise. I don't spend a lot of time reviewing climate change literature so that I can argue about it on this tuba bulletin board, but - at least, less of our oil money goes to all those friendly countries around the globe, right?

bloke wrote:...and (OK...if indeed it DID exist) hasn't even been undeniably demonstrated (ie: a few degrees rise in average world temps.) that it will be anti-beneficial to plants, animals, and humans?


As I understand it, the change is already proving beneficial to some animals, unfortunately insects that damage spruce trees. The notion of "undeniably demonstrated" is of course vacuous if there exist large numbers of people who are so dedicated to denial, and I'm not really motivated to dig up the details on as much of the scenario as we know, but the way I've heard it, expect catastrophe. Even if the temperature change itself didn't matter to any organism (though it will), there will be changes in weather patterns that are bound to seriously disrupt agriculture, for example.

bloke wrote:the "COMING ICE AGE"...?!?!


http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/ar ... ling-myth/
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Re: Da Weatherman Sez...

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Donn wrote: Well, yeah - our economic system is based on unsustainable exploitation of fossil fuel, so like it or not, we're going to have to face this some day, and the sooner, the less catastrophic. So on this point, we can't afford not to. I mean, seriously, oil and coal aren't being created at the rate we burn them, correct?

Time to dip my toe in after watching this (largely) three party "discussion" for months.

Donn, your assertation about our "unsustainable exploitation of fossil fuel" hinges primarily on your belief of the age of Earth. Many folks, myself included, read the Bible as factual and literal. In doing so, Earth is roughly 6000 years old. From that perspective, our use of fossil fuel is NOT unsustainable.

That being said, I also believe that we are to be good stewards of this world... which entails reducing consumption when it makes sense.
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Re: Da Weatherman Sez...

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bloke wrote:I will no longer poke holes in your religion. It simply hurts many parishioners' *feelings too much.
You've poked no holes in any "religion," Bloke. You've brought no scientific evidence to the table with which to debate the facts that carbon dioxide retains heat longer than water vapor, that an increase in the concentration of atmospheric carbon dioxide will--over time--continue to increase the mean global temperature of the earth, and that carbon dioxide emissions have been increasing (and will continue to increase) for many, many years. What part of this is so hard for you to accept? Perhaps your overlords (i.e., Beck, Hannity, Limbaugh) have roped you into their religion of "everyone who thinks different than you is WRONG." Is that what it is? Now that you've been living in the country, you automatically have to buy into the "hate all them environmental nut jobs" argument? You're automatically more knowledgeable than the akadimiks, profesurs, and siuntises that have lived their jobs for decades because you're an acolyte of the Beck, Hannity, and Limbaugh trinity with Sarah Palin as the virgin mother and Ann Coulter as Mary Magdalene?

You've danced around waving your hands asking people to hear your argument, based not on scientific evidence at all but solely on your political beliefs.

Now you've linked those of us who agree with the evidence we've been presented as similar in mindset to those who would issue death threats against individuals who wear fur. Really? Is your argument so weak that you must refer to calling us names?

I've tried to stay away from this "discussion" thread before, Bloke, but you continue to produce anecdotal evidence that has no bearing on the long-term trend of increases in atmospheric carbon dioxide. You assert that you are right and that those who "buy into the religion" are Marxists and socialists. Name calling is what you've reduced yourself too.

That, Bloke, is the argument of grade schoolers.
steve_decker wrote:...I also believe that we are to be good stewards of this world... which entails reducing consumption when it makes sense.
This is the best sentence that can be found on this thread. Thanks steve_decker.
Last edited by SRanney on Mon Feb 15, 2010 11:57 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Da Weatherman Sez...

Post by Thomas Maurice Booth »

Here is a clip of Rachel Maddow interviewing Bill Nye on February 10, 2010. Most of the points they make are common sense, but the way in which they present the information is excellent.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYvk1OtI0H0" target="_blank

Enjoy.

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Re: Da Weatherman Sez...

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bloke wrote:.Further, I additionally heat my home with the wood from fallen trees (as there are so many of these, that it is silly to cut down living trees). Does this release CO2 into the air...?? I guess it does, but were those trees allowed to ROT, they would release the SAME amount of CO2, and I would 1/ receive none of the benefit of that release and 2/ waste more money on natural gas.
Of course you'd receive the benefits, just not directly. The carbon would be broken down by micro-organisms, assimilated by primary producers (i.e., photosynthetic organisms) and converted into sugars, consumed by herbivores (e.g., deer) and converted into body mass, then consumed by carnivores (e.g., you). Read up on the carbon cycle.
bloke wrote: :arrow: Something "scientific" that needs to be realized by some is this: Additional carbon dioxide in the atmosphere has been found to be a RESULT (rather than a CAUSE) of additional heat.
This is a very simplistic view of looking at things and has been skewed to fit into your argument. Carbon dioxide retains infrared energy (i.e., heat) longer than do other molecules, thus resulting in higher levels of energy (i.e., heat) that is ultimately released at a slower rate.

Fossil fuels are consumed and carbon dioxide can be produced by this equation:
2(C8H18) + 25(O2) + Heat --> 16(CO2) + 18(H20).
This is the same equation that most of us learn in school: fuel plus oxygen plus heat source equals conversion. What you don't seem to understand is that once CO2 has been released, the structure of the carbon dioxide molecule itself is the mechanism by which energy is trapped. Is CO2 the result of heat? In a round-about way, yes, but only when the heat is great enough to break the carbon bonds.
bloke wrote: :arrow: In MY way of thinking, it seems to me that the person who is asserting that the sky IS falling in (whether this person is lone or legion) is under an INFINITELY HIGHER level obligation to come up with non-anecdotal (AS WELL AS NON-TAMPERED-WITH :x ) evidence than the person who suggests that perhaps the sky is NOT falling in. :|
Just because you and your holy trinity (i.e., Beck, Hannity, Limbaugh) are not convinced doesn't mean it isn't happening. The un-tampered with scientific evidence is there. You just refuse to believe it because your overlords have filled you full of their flavored kool-aid.

Bloke, you may be surprised to learn that I am a Christian and consider Christ as my Lord and Savior. I was raised in the church, sang in the church choir and played in the church quintet growing up (and was a bit shocked when a member of this board showed me that he emptied his spit valve on the church floor; thanks Al!), worked at that very church for many years while I finished up my undergraduate degree, and like you believe that the universe is much older than 6,000 years and evolution is all part of His big plan. In all honesty, I used to think that socialism, in theory, was a good form of government. However, after a few economics classes (thank you, liberal arts university) and discussions with a few professors, I formed new opinions.

By the way, I do not encourage anyone, ever, to work at a large, affluent church if they also plan on worshiping there. Having worked at the bottom of the totem pole (e.g., janitorial/maintenance) I was able to see just how many in the congregation (and on staff, for that matter) really treat their brother man.
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Re: Da Weatherman Sez...

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SRanney wrote:that he emptied his spit valve on the church floor; thanks Al!
You put that in just for me didn't you. As a matter of fact, the spit rags are in my washing machine at this very minute getting cleaned for Wednesday night practice. I have reformed! Actually I didn't realize that the spit took off the floor wax until a wet behind the ears sometimes tuba playing maintainance man pointed it out to me. To all of you out there that regularly empty your condensate on a waxed hardwood floor, PLEASE STOP!, as it promotes global warming/cooling/status quo.
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Re: Da Weatherman Sez...

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bloke wrote:As an obvious attempt to "control the argument via control of the rhetoric", the term "climate change denier" has OBVIOUSLY been created by the shrill to hearken towards the anti-Semitic-describing term "holocaust denier" (ie: "climate change denier" is a term which emotionally resorts to name-calling-through-rhetoric - as a last resort - by radicals).
As one of those wily radicals who's always trying to drown the reasoned tone of this "debate" in shrill rhetoric, it's my duty to point out that the above is "denial denial."

Also thought it might be interesting for some of you that we're about due for a collision with the planet Nibiru, which we know from a woman with an implant in her brain that receives messages from the Zeta Reticuli star system. Siuntists scoff, but why would we start listening to those conspiring rascals now?
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Re: Da Weatherman Sez...

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bloke wrote:Unfortunately, I have other disappointing stories that could be told about several other large "churches" as well
What do you expect as these institutions are full of sinful human beings. Seriously! To expect anything else would be the ultimate nievety. A dear friend of mine left this very church when we had less than a thousand members because we were planning a huge expenditure on a new building. He thought we were way off base and should spend every extra dime feeding the poor and saving lost souls through missions. We now send more than that building cost us out every year in the form of charity aid and mission work. It's simply a matter of perspective. I honestly don't know where I could contribute my mere morsels of time talent and money to do as much good, even if I do get pissed off by the pettiness at times. There was only one perfect being ever and they crucified Him.
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Re: Da Weatherman Sez...

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bloke wrote:can you just IMAGINE how these people (assuming their religion has not been disbanded by that time) will squawk when the next (ref: 1930's) "dust bowl" rolls around?
Actually I don't believe anyone's going to be very thrilled about it.
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Re: Da Weatherman Sez...

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Joe-
Whatever newscast gave the Lake Erie thing as being 'frozen over' completely must be drinking something special--as I drive into Buffalo along Route 5, Lake Erie is to my left and I can see open water--in fact, two ice fisherman in the Buffalo Harbor on Lake Erie were rescued today as they tried to fish on thin ice and fell through.
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Re: Da Weatherman Sez...

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It's snowed almost every day for almost a month in central Illinois where I go to school. The weatherman used the term "Snowpocalypse" yesterday. It was awesome. That is all.
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