Is a Eb tuba whis pushed-down 4. valve like a Bb tuba?

[tubacdk]

a BBb tuba has longer valve tubes than an Eb tuba. When you push down the 4th valve of an Eb tuba the other valves stay the same length, so you'll have pitch problems. You have to pull out the valve slides a proportional amount in order to correct the pitch problems. I have never tried doing this, but I expect that the necessary corrections may take more tubing than your valve slides have available. Then there's also the problem that the tubing you are adding is all small diameter & cylindrical so the tone ends up being not as open as it would be if you were playing a true BBb tuba.

So aside from pitch problems and stuffy tone, sure. An Eb tuba with the 4th valve held down could act like a BBb.

-ck

[Lew]

a BBb tuba has longer valve tubes than an Eb tuba. When you push down the 4th valve of an Eb tuba the other valves stay the same length, so you'll have pitch problems. You have to pull out the valve slides a proportional amount in order to correct the pitch problems. I have never tried doing this, but I expect that the necessary corrections may take more tubing than your valve slides have available. Then there's also the problem that the tubing you are adding is all small diameter & cylindrical so the tone ends up being not as open as it would be if you were playing a true BBb tuba.

So aside from pitch problems and stuffy tone, sure. An Eb tuba with the 4th valve held down could act like a BBb.

-ck

This is correct, except on compensating instruments. The extra length required is what the compensating tubing is supposed to add. It may still play a little stuffy due to the nature of the tubing added, but compensating will help the intonation issue, and an Eb with the 4th valve depressed will be much more like a BBb.

[Rick Denney]

I tested it, but I'm not satisfied. I think, the B1 sounds too high?
Any opinions?
Uli

Pull the other slides to tune the other valve branches. As Sean says, a valve slide for a Bb tuba is longer than for an Eb tuba. But I'm not so sure it can't be done with most slides. Most cheapie Eb tubas have really long third-valve slides, and this is the valve that long enough to be a problem. Arnold Jacobs, so the story goes, auditioned for Curtis on a borrowed Eb tuba, and because he did not at the time know Eb fingerings, tied the fourth valve down and adjusted the other slides accordingly, playing it as a three-valve Bb tuba.

Rick "noting that a four-valve compensator such as a Besson 983 does not need the valve slide adjustments" Denney

[Chuck(G)]

Rick "noting that a four-valve compensator such as a Besson 983 does not need the valve slide adjustments" Denney

Unless you're going for the low F or E natural, in which case it's just as sharp as any student BBb 3-banger.

[tubaman5150]

I have a Besson Sovereign EEb 981 and find that it can play anything that a Bb can but with a better tone in the middle and higher registers. I have even used it to play the Contrabass tuba part in Wagner's Rheingold with its full tone being complemented!

I would say that this has more to do with your playing than the choice of instrument. Although, I would guess that traditionally more high quality Eb tubas were made than BBb tubas. Of course, this is not true today with more and more high quality BBb tuba being produced.
I'm saying that many have drawn the wrong conclusion to believe that BBb's are inferior because the of poor quality of some student instruments.
I would also guess that you are a gifted player who prefers an Eb tuba. Another player might sound as good on F, BBb, of CC in their respective upper and mid registers.
Like I said, it all depends on the player.

[Steve Inman]

Rick "noting that a four-valve compensator such as a Besson 983 does not need the valve slide adjustments" Denney

Unless you're going for the low F or E natural, in which case it's just as sharp as any student BBb 3-banger.

But as a former 983 owner, I was impressed with the top-side "bonus slide" included in the 4th valve tubing. With a bit of a tug on this easy-to-reach slide, you can get those lower notes pretty well in tune.

Cheers,

[Chuck(G)]

But as a former 983 owner, I was impressed with the top-side "bonus slide" included in the 4th valve tubing. With a bit of a tug on this easy-to-reach slide, you can get those lower notes pretty well in tune.

Sort of like a lot of other things in life--automatic vs. manual transmissions, Mac vs. PC, etc. Some prefer the "do it yourself" flexibility of a non-comp 5 banger; others like the "automatic" aspect of a 4-valve comp.