Brass Quintet Equipment

[nummy1]

I am a tuba player in an Army Band. I am mostly playing in a brass quintet. My weapon is a Meinl-Weston 2145, but I think it is too big sounding for that environment... I want to know what the best equipment is for brass quintet... Thanks

Adam K.
US Army Band, Alaska

[MartyNeilan]

I am not a big fan of the 2145, however, I think one of the areas it positively excels is a traditional brass quintet. Perhaps you could try a shallower, cup shaped mouthpiece (along the lines of what you might use on a rotary F tuba) and see if that gives you more of the timbre you are looking for.

Of all the diverse horns I have owned, the 2145 was definitely one of my favorite quintet horns; I honestly was not in love with it in most other venues.

Another popular piston quintet horn is the Yamaha YFB-822, but in all honestly it probably puts out more sound than the 2145 you are playing now, and it is edgier on the very bottom due to being an F (IE low F as a pedal vs. 45 on the MW2145). The much smaller YFB-621 can also make a good quintet horn if you are looking for a clear, compact sound (or even its longer brother, the YCB-621.) I won't recommend the G-50 in your case, as the military probably wouldn't want to buy an older horn, and it will also put out at least as much sound as you are using now; again it is a great quintet horn. You could always try a Miraphone 185 CC, I think they are making them again. A lot of guys seem to like the big German rotor F tubas for quintet playing, but they can sometimes be squirrely in the medium low register where a solid tone and accurate pitch are critical for a quintet tuba.

Try the mouthpiece thing first and see what happens. (Cheaper too!)

(Reply to Bloke: I think both of them currently have owners )

[The Jackson]

Hi, Adam,

The Yamaha YCB-621 is a purpose-built quintet horn and it is outstanding in that role. I've had it as my only horn for a year-and-a-half now and it's just a blast. I play it in larger ensembles, too, and I rarely feel underpowered.

Keep in mind that it is equipped with four valves. The slides are placed ergonomically enough that 1 and 3 can be easily manipulated and you can get 2 and 4 OK if they are greased very well and it does not have to be a fast action.

I am 6' and I feel sort-of "weird" with the C-621 roosting around on my thigh. I use a playing stand that I fashioned out of a drum throne. Other players (with the F version - very similar geometry) have no problems with it, but I just do. It's an easy fix, though, should you feel that way.

I think the YCB-621 is a fantastic quintet horn and a very good all-around horn. I'd definitely give it a try.

[Roger Lewis]

I play in two professional brass quintets on a regular basis. They both absolutely love the Miraphone 188 that I'm playing. Some people prefer an F in a quintet. I'm just a little more comfortable on a CC than the F in that setting. I have used the JBL and they like it, but the 188 is just a more versatile horn for me. Ricochet, the 2nd movement of the Bozza, the Malcolm Arnold, etc, all (for me) tend to lay better on the CC.

Just my $0.02.

Roger

[UTSAtuba]

Didn't Gene Pokorny use his 'YamaYork' in a quintet performance on YouTube? But also...he's Gene

Joseph "not really attributing to anything"

[JHardisk]

I've been debating the choice of equipment for a week or so now, in preparation for a brass quintet tour in a couple weeks. I go between my 6450 and my JBL, but really what I'd like is a nice 188 or 4/4 Nirschl.

We're playing some "pop" Mnozil brass charts, along with the Arnold quintet, and some standards... Te Deum, Nessun Dorma, Entry of the Gladiators, etc..

I find that the CC tuba works best for walking bass stuff, and the more "legit" rep. Unfortunately, my quintet prefers the JBL on the Arnold, and those fugly D majorish licks in the 3rd movement, and that nice low stuff in the 2nd movement are less than fun. Of course, they're cake on the CC...

YMMV, I'm guessing. I firmly believe that a nice 4/4 CC tuba works best (and I would include the 822F in the 4/4 CC tuba realm) for almost all Quintet work, but I'm no quintet player by design... just a poser/do it when I'm told to.

[MartyNeilan]

My weapon is a Meinl-Weston 2145, but I think it is too big sounding for that environment.

Unfortunately, I think many of those responding seemed to miss this part.

[Rick Denney]

Typical brass quintet writing has the poor tuba jumping all over the place assuming the role of a

- contrabass tuba
- bass tuba
- bass trombone
- tenor trombone
- horn
- trumpet
- piano

Don't forget bassoon, harpsichord, and other bass continuo instruments.

Edit: The bass continuo role is important--a lot of quintet music comprises transcriptions of Renaissance and Baroque music. One thing I like about the Yamaha YFB-621--and the B&S Symphonie-style F with a shallowish BlokeSolo--is that it will blend well with the trombone and not sound like a tuba woofophone with brass accompaniment. Some stuff just wants a contrabass, but I still use the F for quintet.

Rick "who also uses an F tuba with a great low range" Denney

[T. J. Ricer]

This may or may not be helpful, but, for me, the best compromise of all worlds is a solid Eb tuba. I'm a big fan of the Yamaha 321/381 for ease of playability/price/sound. Always had a good time with a compensating Eb, as well. Large Eb's are fun. . . they're not always the best choice for a piece, but they are almost never the worst choice - often the runner-up. When I can't have access to multiple horns and/or don't know what the rep will be, I throw the Eb in the car.

[Ken Herrick]

I must admit some degree of greeness of the envy type.When i was playing with the Chicago Brass Quintet (Charlie Geir et al) in the 60s I had nowhere near the equipment choices you guys have now. It was my King with the Helleberg or with the shallow up mp. The F was not a consideration. My Point - work and blend with the group you are in. That said..........

A shallower cup mp might "thin out" the sound if that is what is needed. A mira 184 CC could make a nice choice and avoid the whole thing of doubling on F and CC. A good one should give you good coverage on the whole range required.

You might also like to try one of the new Kanstul "York" remakes. Were I to be going in for a quintet gig now I would certainly like to try one of those. The Eb suggestion is also not a bad one.

Keep in mind, a different mp can make a big difference and is a LOT cheaper than a new tuba and is a lot easier to carry around. (I'll bet you couldn't fit even a tournister in your pocket!!!)

Your sound "concept"for different groups will also have a lot to do with what equipment is needed. Wouldn't it be nice if you could find a few tubas YOU liked then take them all to a session with the quintet and see which worked best?!?!

I remember some of the most beautiful tuba in a quintet playing I ever heard was Jake with Bud and the boys with that York going from almost inaudible ppp to room shaking FFF.

[Homerun]

I like the new mouthpiece idea as well....it won't be a huge change, but enough for you to play more delicate to fit the dynamic of the group. I play my Thor and an Eb in my quintet, but I use a different mouthpiece on the Thor that let me play more delicate. It does help that the Thor (in my opinion) has the potential to play alot smaller than it really is I love that horn!

[Michael Grant]

[quote="UTSAtuba"]Didn't Gene Pokorny use his 'YamaYork' in a quintet performance on YouTube? But also...he's Gene

If it is the one recently done of the Arnold, he is playing his Hirsbrunner HB-2 (or the like). It's not the York. He sounds amazing on that, by the way.

As for me, I prefer Eb for quintet. And as it is currently my only horn, I prefer it for everything. I used to use a smaller CC in quintet and it worked well. Then I used a B&S F for many years and I was happy with that despite early struggles in the low register. I spent plenty of time working on my low chops on the F and it was not a problem. It did have a stuffier low register than a CC or Eb. However, when I switched to Eb, the low register was a breeze (especially coming from F) and the high register still sang. I use the Willson 3400 Eb and I feel the 20% pieces that have been previously mentioned work well on it. For quintets I give it two thumbs up! I should also mention that I would be happy with a Rudy 3/4 CC for the same reasons. Great low and high range, great sound, fingerings work well, etc. You couldn't go wrong with that one either.

Best of luck.

[ken k]

I will put in another vote for an Eb. i think the range of the quintet rep fits the Eb perfectly. i use a B&H 3&1 comper but the besson 983 with its smaller bell is a great quintet horn also.

Ken Herrick mentioned the mira 184. A friend of mine has a Miraphone 184 CC and he sounds great on it also in quintet. very clear artix and clean in fast technical passages, of course he can play too, but the 184 is like a scalpel; it really has a precise sound.

ken k

[Art Hovey]

I recently attended a recital by the Yale Brass Trio augmented with a second trumpet player and Mike Roylance on tuba. Mr. Roylance did his solo number on an F tuba, but for the quintet pieces (Malcom Arnold and something else) he used a gi-normous CC. (It may have been a Thor, or some other copy of the Chicago York.) Needless to say, he sounded great on both horns, and this was NOT a "dead" room.

I was reminded of a time when I used a large tuba in rehearsing a quintet and then decided to bring a smaller one to the concert. The trumpet players remarked that they wished I had stayed with the big one; that was the sound they liked.
Whatever tuba you choose will be fine if you play it well enough. Just don't start asking for opinions about your choice.

[Tubadork]

Hey,
Bloke has some great advice, I think it depends on the rep of the group. For our quintet, I have been playing most of what we do on a Gnagey 4/4 CC (york bell, king guts etc...) and it works very well for most of our pop jazz and light classical. When we first started I used my PT6, but it felt like driving a big rig on ice, then I went to a Yamaha 621CC, but for what we do, it was too small, the Gnagey was just right.

For our recital literature I do play more on the F tuba. I have been using a PT10 (GDR) and it works ok, but I feel like when we crank on some stuff it's a bit too hard to sound as big as I would want in the low range. I have been messing with a Yamaha 822F and it fits very well, big sound, easy playability and it can be plenty loud and big.

If you just want to use one horn, you could play a Conn 3J or 2J, but they don't come up for sale all that much or you could get a Miraphone 184, 185, or maybe a 186. I would sit down and check out some recording of Brass quintets and see what they play and see who matches your tonal concept.

Here are some examples:
Canadian Brass- Yamaha 621CC
Meridian Arts Ensemble- Conn 2J (maybe 3J, I can't remember)
Center City- PT6 for the early albums, Conn 56J for the Romantic Music album (and a silver PT10 for one of the tracks)
Gomalan Brass Quintet- 1st two albums Rudy F, Fossi used a F PT something (10, 15, 16?), just saw their website and there is a picture of a new tuba player and it looks like he is playing an Eb
Luurs Metalls- on the early albums Yamaha 621F on Caminos de Espana the guy plays an Eb, current tubaist, it looks like maybe a Petrouchka
Empire Brass- Sam used a MW Bell model and a 2145, Amis uses an Eb (Besson I think)

Good luck,
Bill

[jtuba]

I use my 184 exclusively in quintet. Maybe I'm just stubborn, but I don't think I'll ever use F again in quintet. Maybe an EEb, but I'd have to buy one first. Check out portions of our recital last year.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqUlBrUZiB0" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFpjBpvJ20w" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSoq8evlGGA" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank

[J.c. Sherman]

You can use almost anything... It depends most largely on your quintet members and your quintet's focus.

I play with two distinctly different Quintets. One is a powerhouse, but also a more laid-back and comical group. Here, I'll usually bring both my Yamaha 621 F and my Kalison DS. Often, these will be joined by a couple "special purpose" instruments, such as a BBb recording for Jazz or comic effect, a helicon, a cimbasso... what have you. If I'm just "showing up" for a gig with them, though, I'll bring the Miraphone 184CC. The bone player likes it a lot, and it's very flexible with a little more breadth in the bottom than and F. Psychologically, they prefer a CC.

My other group is an entirely different voicing. I use my Eb Boosey Imperial almost exclusively... for Tuba parts. I play a lot of bass bone with this group, but the Eb is most flexible and it leaves more room for the subtleties of the other doublers in the group (we change instrumentation all the time). I never need a big horn with this group, but I can pop out for effect if needed.

IMHO, an large CC in general is designed to support a large ensemble. A bass tuba has a chance of being a member of - instead of a supporting artist to - a chamber group.

J.c.S. (Go Eb!)

[jcameron]

I play on a PT-15 in all the quintets that I have performed with in the last 10 years or so. Though I have to spend a lot of time getting the low range to sound like the rest of the horn, the tone seems to match the instrumentation. I feel that the biggest concern is having a rich sound that blends with the upper brass (and they can blend with you) but with enough horse-power for more orchestral-style groups and pieces.

[PWtuba]

.

[Bob Kolada]

I prefer to bass trombone most of the time in brass quintet, but when I do play tuba I use my small front action King Eb. I would love to try a cimbasso and a big euphonium as well.
Personally, I find contrabass tubas too difficult to play in a quintet (especially considering I HAVE a small, easy to play bass tuba) and they just sound too different from the other horns.

Then again, I've never really been know as a typical tuba player in any way.