Small bore BBb tubas?

Norm in Bellevue · Post by **Norm in Bellevue** » Tue Dec 21, 2004 12:25 am

OK, here's the situation. Until this past Feb. it had been more than 30 years since I was a fair-to-middling bass trombonist. A professional singing career has kept me busy. Now I'm back to low brass. Because of arthritis in both shoulders, I've taken up euphonium rather than trombone. I'm taking lessons from a pro tubist, practicing a lot, have purchased a Yamaha 642S, and I'm loving it! Unfortunately, I've been experiencing discomfort in my right arm and hand when playing my euph. My hands are also a bit arthritic, but I think repetitive motiion syndrome may be part of the problem. It has occurred to me that the top action valves of the euph are agravating this condition. So I'm giving some thought to switching to a small tuba with side action valves at least some of the time. Wisely, my teacher (who occasionally posts here!) has counseled patience in making such a decision.

Because I really don't want to learn new fingerings for an Eb or F tuba, and because I don't have huge wind capacity, I thought a small bore BBb would make the most sense. The horns I'm considering are as follows:

1. Yamaha YBB-621 (.689 bore)
2. Jupiter 482 (.709 bore)
3. Harvey Phillips Holton (.687 bore)
4. Jupiter 778 rotary (? bore)
5. Meinl-Weston 186 (.630 bore)
6. Meinl-Weston "Handy" (.748 bore)

My playing time is a mix of solo, tuba-euph ensemble, and a British-style brass band beginning in Jan. Are there any of the above horns I should NOT consider? And if so, why not? Are there any horns I've left out that I SHOULD consider?

Thanks in advance for your replies.

Chuck(G) · Post by **Chuck(G)** » Tue Dec 21, 2004 12:37 am

If it's small bore you're after, consider the King 2341: 0.687" bore.

Tom · Post by **Tom** » Tue Dec 21, 2004 1:37 am

harold wrote:
If you are not interested in that, call Dan Oberloh. Last time I was in his shop, he had a really nice front action Wilson euphonium.

That one's sold, according to a recent check of their website...

cjk · Post by **cjk** » Tue Dec 21, 2004 7:31 am

Here are three worthy of consideration (if you can find the two used ones which aren't made anymore):

--Weril copy of the YBB-621 (.650somthing? It's cheaper and 99.99% as good as the Yamaha)
--Mirafone 184 BBb (.705, used, no longer made)
--a 4 valve Olds 099 (.650something, must be used as no longer made)

If it's small bore you're after, consider the King 2341: 0.687" bore.

This is a very nice instrument, I'd pick it before the horns in my or your list.

Steve Inman · Post by **Steve Inman** » Tue Dec 21, 2004 8:47 am

Here's an additional strategy that may apply in your case:

Do you have any experience reading treble clef music for euph? If so, then switching to Eb would be VERY EASY. The bass clef notes for an Eb tuba have the same fingerings as the treble clef notes for euphonium, for notes on the same line/space. There is a key signature difference, but that can be dealt with very easily.

In the Eb realm, the Besson 983 is a nice choice, with the valves where you are interested. The Willson 3400 Eb is VERY nice, but more expensive and not typically seen used.

Good luck,

Lew · Post by **Lew** » Tue Dec 21, 2004 9:11 am

Although I love playing my Besson 983, I would suggest staying away from it if you have any arthritis in your hands. The valves don't have that long a travel, but since they are compensating they are very long and therefore heavier than other piston valves.

I would think that your best bet would be a rotary valve instrument. The valve travel is shorter on a rotary, and it has side/front action which should be easier on your hands. The Meinl-Weston 18 "handy" is a good choice. I find the M-W 186 a little too small. Some other good small rotary valve tubas would be the Lidl: check this link:

http://www.lidlmusic.cz/josef/news/lbb701.htm

They are carried by a couple of the shops listed on this site and by Lee Stofer (www.tubameister.com).

The Miraphone 182 is another nice small tuba, but it has a relatively large 0.770" bore.

Better still, if you can find one of these you can have a front action, rotary valve euphonium that should be easier on your hands than the Willson2975, although the Willson is a fine instrument.

http://www.amati.cz/english/production/ ... p_533g.htm

I know that Dillon music can get these for you.

Another option would be to look for an old, front action 4 valve baritone horn used somewhere. I think that the King 2268 is available new that is their 4 valve front action baritone horn/euphonium.

http://www.kingwinds.com/catalog/detail.php?item=2268

But then, if arthritis in your shoulders is a significant problem, holding a euphonium up could exacerbate the problem. That can be avoided by either playing a tuba with a stand, or using a playing stand, Stewart or other, or strap with a euphonium. Good luck.

Mark · Post by **Mark** » Tue Dec 21, 2004 1:59 pm

bloke wrote:
--Mirafone 184 BBb (.705, used, no longer made)

Actually, I have one of these "in line to be restored" that won't be ready for sale for several months, but the main point is that I believe they are back in production (new)...even though U.S. outlets don't seem to be stocking them.

Yes, they are back in production. Roger Lewis told me that if you wanted one with A=440 that it would have to be special ordered from Miraphone.

ken k · Post by **ken k** » Tue Dec 21, 2004 3:40 pm

Would using a Stewart Stand to support the weight of the euph help at all? I know when I added a Stewart Stand to my Eb tuba it was like a 2 ton weight lifted off my shoulders. Even though I was setting the horn on my lap and not holding it previously, the Stewart Stand just shifted the balance of the horn so that I was no longer trying to hold the horn with my right hand. It relaxed my right hand considerably. I would strongly recommend trying a stewart stand on your euph. It is also adjustable for height.

Now you could still get into doubling on tuba if you like since there is not a great deal of work for most Euph players.

The Miraphone 186 is a great easy to play horn and yet it is not so small that you can't use it in larger ensembles. the MW 18 "Handy" is an awesome horn, one of my favorites; but it could get lost in a large ensemble. Even thought the bore of the MW is lager than the Miraphone the bell and last wrap are a bit smaller. I think I would prefer these two horns over the others you mentioned, although I never played the Holton. I agree too with the post that mentioned that a rotor valve generally has a shorter throw than a piston.

ken k

cjk · Post by **cjk** » Tue Dec 21, 2004 5:45 pm

Roger Lewis told me that if you wanted one with A=440 that it would have to be special ordered from Miraphone.

What's wrong with A=443 ???????

Shockwave · Post by **Shockwave** » Tue Dec 21, 2004 9:50 pm

The King 2341 is the perfect horn for you. It sounds an awful lot nicer than any of those smaller BBb tubas, yet it has a fairly small bore. Old ones are cheap, too.

-Eric

Art Hovey · Post by **Art Hovey** » Wed Dec 22, 2004 12:36 am

My first choice for you would be an Olds. The king is a good tuba, but might be too big and heavy for you.
Werils are nice, but a bit too small.
Another that you should consider is the Lidl, a small rotary-valve instrument that plays very well.