Tubas at Midwest Clinic

[harrell]

I just got back from the Midwest Clinic in Chicago. It was great.
I spent several hours playing tubas in the exhibit hall. It was wonderful. I spent most of my time at the Custom Music booth, and visited the others. Jeff was nice and very helpful with questions.
After playing all the tubas there in a reasonable price range, the ones that played best for me were:
1. PT20P
2. Besson 983 Eb

If I could afford any tuba I wanted:

1. Meinl Weston 2000 - the best horn I have ever played of any key.
2. Meinl Weston 2265 - played like the 2000, just a bigger sound.
3. Hirsbrunner HB12 F tuba

I had a great trip and heard many great ensembles play, one of them the Texas Tech Faculty Brass Quintet.

My $.02

Jason Harrell

[Steve Marcus]

This year's Midwest was the first opportunity that I had to play a PT-606. It was a very enjoyable experience.

[Cameron Gates]

I was very surprised by the new MW piston F at Baltimore Brass (sorry I can not remember the model number). That thing flat-out plays. That and the Gronitz at TE were the only F's I played. I think the Gronitz was a lemon because other examples of that model were much better.

The CC's....... man there were a lot of them. I agree that the 2265 was quite a horn, but I still don't get the 2000. Is it me or does this thing seem like a bit like a "'tweener"? Anyone else get this? Maybe I'm missing the boat. The Piston Miraphone was very nice also, although it would take me a while to get used to the short throw on all the valves. This tuba also seems to be a bit of a 'tweener. The Gronitz 4/4 really stood out as a nice horn. I only question the way that it is built. Does anyone out there have a long term track record with Gronitz that could talk about how the horn holds up physically over years of use?

To me the star of the show was that silver PT-606. I can't get enough of that horn. The low end on that beast was enough for me to stop looking at other tubas and buy one recently. It was nice to play all the horns there and confirm that I did make the right choice for me. Please, no flaming. Remember, I said it was the correct choice for ME. (I know how huffy people can get if you don't fall in love with their horn). If you liked something else, great. But HOLY FREAKIN COW, what an axe that thing is.

Midwest should come twice a year.

Cameron Gates

[harrell]

The PT606 was a very nice horn. It was the first time I had gotten to play one. It is very different, in a good way, from the typical CC.

I went with the idea that I needed a good smallish all-purpose horn, like a big F or Eb. I tried to go in there with an open mind toward all the horns. The "star" for me was the PT20P. It seemed to fit me and my playing characteristics. I am gonna try my best to save up and get one. They ain't cheap!!!

Also, I might add that I was most impressed with the Willson line of horns. EVERY horn they had in there, from BBb to F, played very well. They have the most consistant horns, well built horns in their line.

[harrell]

That was the one thing I forgot to make time for--mouthpieces. I wish I had tried a few new mouthpieces. Maybe next time.

[Adam C.]

I briefly tried the PT606P and found the low register to be a bit quirky. To me it didn't feel as open as the rest of the horn, which led to some timbre differences around low C and below. Hard to make a judgement with 10 minutes of playing on the exhibit floor, though.

Roger Lewis' Miraphone 1291 CC is a nice horn- I might consider swapping my PT-6P for one of those if I found one that played as well as his or Alan Baer's.

On the small MW 2182, I loved the 5 minutes I spent on it. It seemed to slot extremely well and it had a nice even timbre and response. Intonation seemed good, too.

[Rick Denney]

...but I still don't get the 2000. Is it me or does this thing seem like a bit like a "'tweener"? Anyone else get this? Maybe I'm missing the boat....

...To me the star of the show was that silver PT-606. I can't get enough of that horn....

Do you mean by "tweener" that the 2000 seems too big for small ensembles but not big enough for large ensembles? I might agree, as long as I have a bigger tuba that plays really well. But every time I've played a 2000, I've wanted one, even though I don't play CC. It's just so darn fun to play.

It may be that in some large ensembles where the maestro (or the hall) doesn't want a tuba of the grand-orchestral type, the 2000 or the Miraphone would really fit the bill.

I'm hoping someone will bring a PT-606 to the Army conference so I can try it out. I've never tried any of the Perantucci CC's, but I'm curious.

Rick "who would learn CC fingerings if someone gave him a 2000" Denney

[james]

The 606 was a very nice instrument for someone looking for a 5/4 "american" tuba sound(which is actually very hard to find). I found that the sound was wider and darker than what I particuarly like. The horn was very easy to play and even in all registers. The demo Miraphone 1291 couldn't hold a candle to Al's personal model. The sound wasn't even close to being as clear and focused as Al's horn. The 2265 was HUGE. It was the biggest tuba sound I've heard. In fact, I could think of only maybe two or three jobs in the country capable of handling that kind of sound. No clear thoughts on any other CC Tubas.

[Cameron Gates]

I'm hoping someone will bring a PT-606 to the Army conference so I can try it out. I've never tried any of the Perantucci CC's, but I'm curious.

I'll have my 606 there to play in the mass ensemble. I am sure Custom will have one for display as well. You are more than welcome to play mine. BTW Rick, if you are ever in DC and have some time, come on over to my place and play it.

Cameron Gates

[Rick Denney]

I'll have my 606 there to play in the mass ensemble. I am sure Custom will have one for display as well. You are more than welcome to play mine. BTW Rick, if you are ever in DC and have some time, come on over to my place and play it.

We'll have to have get a group together, come out here to the country, drink adult beverages, and try out each other's tubas.

Let's discuss it at the Army conference. I see many possibilities for something fun.

Rick "occasionally in DC for meetings, but usually trying to get out before the traffic hits" Denney

[Wallace]

All this talkt about the 606 has made me wonder...
Anyonw know how much these are selling for?

[Cameron Gates]

I gotta say that $10K isn't too bad for that much horn. You could definitely get less for more.

MW2000s go for $12500 and Mira 1291s go for $7300.

I agree, 10K is a good price for the PT-606 errrrrr GR 41. When I was looking at buying the 606/41 I looked at the Miraphone, the 2000, Pt-6 and the big Gronitz.

With the 606 and the 6 being very close in price and the 2000 being quite a bit more, I can assure you I really looked at and played (a lot) the Miraphone and Gronitz. In the end, I paid the extra money. Why? For me (again the is one guy talking here) this horn is everything I will ever need in a CC. The 2000 and the Miraphone were, for me, a little small. The Gronitz was good, but I could not really fall in love with it no matter how hard I tried. Now PLEASE remember that everyone is different. I have read on BBS that the new tuba player in the NYP plays the Miraphone on certain pieces in the orchestra. My hat is off to that guy. I'm sure he can sound like money on a conch shell. Well, I can't play a conch shell. Over the last 10 years I have come to grips with the fact that life is too short to compromise on something as important as one's happiness. I bought the tuba that makes me happy. I can play it better than the other tubas listed (still not great). Who knows, am I the only one who thinks this way about this horn? You could ask the billion people who played the horn at Midwest if they feel the same way. Most people I talked to were in love with the instrument. I am not alone.

We constantly go around and around on this board about horns. Which one is best? Who the heck knows. Here is a list of the horns guys played on that have won the last several auditions for the band that I am in, in order - not mentioning F's:

Hirsbrunner HB2P
Cerveney piggy
Hirsbrunner HB2P
Kalison Pro 2000
Hirsbrunner HB2 rotary
Hirsbrunner HB2P
Getzen (can't remember the number - CB50?)
Culbertson rotary monster

Cerveny piggy? Getzen pocket tuba? Well, the guys that played these could play anything and make it sound great. Which instrument on this list is the best? Well.......for me on that day it was a Pro 2000. If I would have auditioned on a Hirsbrunner or a Getzen I would not have won. I played my comfortable old rag, had a good day, got lucky, and won.

I really wish we could get out of this "this horn is better" thing on this board once and for all. No one knows what makes someone else happy.

Also, now that I have wasted so much time typing, may I suggest we as tuba players get rid of some terms that are thrown around quite a bit:

1. Projection. What is that? Does that mean loud?

2. Color. MW 2165 to Yamaha student 3-banger, they all have the same color. I believe Arnold Jacobs could get any color he wanted out of a Weril if given the chance. BTW, I prefer silver colored instrument from India.

3. Presence. Whaaaaaaaa? All present and accounted for?

4. "Depth of sound". No comment

5. Bright/Dark. Wanna play bright? I hope the trombone players in your group are OK with that. Always do what makes the bone players feel good about themselves. No need to give it a special word.

I believe there is a term that clears up all these vague adjectives: GUTS

Does the horn have guts? If so, good. For me the PT-606 has guts.

Sorry for the rant. Oh no, my computer is on fire.

[ai698]

But Cameron, how do you sound on your Didjeridoo

[Cameron Gates]

OK Cameron, here's my best shot:
Color and Bright/Dark: They are equivalent, and mean which overtones are more emphasized in the sound. A bright horn will have higher overtones that are emphasized, a dark horn will have the fundamental and lower overtones emphasized

I don't think I was very clear. I know, and shamefully use these terms. I know what we think they mean. I am just sick of acting like a bunch of sissies thinking they can hear the grass grow. Come on, we are tuba players. That title carries huge responsibilities:

We talk during rehearsals
We are the first ones to the coffee machine at break
We know the dirtiest jokes
We are the ones the woodwinds hate
We know that without us, the group stinks
We play too loud at all times
We don't listen to music pre-1870, if at all (sports talk radio)
We know the answer to a "who would you do" question in record time

That's a lot of stuff to think about. Instrument color? Projection? One simple question sums it up: "Uhhhh......your horn got guts?"

Yes or no? Its like the binary system of rating the other sex. Is she a 1 or a 0. No 9.5's no 4's. Either yes or no.

[Rick Denney]

Yes or no? Its like the binary system of rating the other sex. Is she a 1 or a 0. No 9.5's no 4's. Either yes or no.

My Holton is a 1. I'm no girly-man.

But I don't know about your PT-606. After all, it's a C tuba, and that seems awfully close to the line over which you'll be talking about this mouthpiece giving you more color than that one.

Rick "not to be outdone (except in playing)" Denney