M&M CC Sousaphone...

[tubainty]

By people that don't care about music I ment that they really didn't care how well they played and especially the tone they played with. All the music I ever played when I was in a marching band was watered down pop songs that had no real technical or musical challenges for anyone, let alone the tuba. It seemed that marching band was more about looking good and everything being uniform than actually making good music, wich in my opinion was never done by this particular band. It would make sense to have both Eb and BBb souzys in the band, but idk if the other tubists in that band would have been able to learn a new key as none of them ever practiced. So that would have left me playing 3 keys of intruments , haha, but I would have gladly done it.

All the BBb tubas I've ever played have very serious intonation problems that are not always easy to fix, F just below the staff is always quite sharp (but that can be fixed by using 4th valve but most begging tubists don't know that), Ab in the first space is also very sharp, and Eb one partial below that is flat (these are of course only on the tuba I used before I switched to C). CC tubas of course have intonation problems as well, but for whatever reason intonation has become so much easier for me to fix since I've switched to C.

Also, since BBb tubas are lower pitched than CC tubas the sound is a lot broader than C tubas, not necessarily a bad thing and likely appropriate in certain situations but it wasn't the sound that I found most appealing, and it seems that someone important must agree with me as C tubas are the norm for most serious players.

But really if everyone in the section has an instrument in the same key everyone would an easier time with intonation I think! Especially in a concert band section.

Davis

[Bob Kolada]

But really if everyone in the section has an instrument in the same key everyone would an easier time with intonation I think! Especially in a concert band section.

Especially if they suck....

[tubainty]

Lolz

[tubaforce]

I have to agree with tubainty! I play in a wonderful community Band on Double Bass and CC Tuba! The rest of the section consists of a 5-J in CC, and a 202 St.Pete(BBb)! Throw in a guy on a miraphone F and that Bass section still plays wonderfully in Tune! Of course all of us are former Tuba majors turned Teachers (and Construction workers), But that hogwash about BBb working with EEb, and CC with F etc.. is pure CRAP! A lot of players play more in tune on CC's 'cause they are much better players than they were when they started on euph, Eb bass, or 3/4 BBb's! Also, I have noticed several makes, Asian, and European, of valve and/or slide Trombones in C, and even F! Remember, the world does NOT revolve around us here in the U.S.! How many times has a director screwed up and you are lucky to have one C-Bass part to copy and decide if it's written up for string bass? The rest are TREBLE clef transposing parts in Eb andBb! Also, any of you arrogant CC guys should study the names in that previous post and eat a big dish of CROW! My main axe is a CC, but I play quite a bit of BBb and EEb too! Quit whining and just play! Hell, we have one old fart in our community band who flawlessly plays Db pic parts on his C pic! Practice 'till ya can't get it wrong! Al.

[sloan]

Yes. All tubas offer up (at least) a few pitches which are distressful. If four identical quadruplets were playing four identical Eb tubas in exactly the same manner - with no adjustments for the "distressful" pitches, all that would be accomplished would be that they would all be playing out-of-tune in perfect unison.

which, for some sections, might be an improvement...

[Ken Herrick]

I'm wondering (but not very much ) if it really is built in C.

Now, THAT is probably the best post on this thread. Somebody - maybe the future Interlochen pro - should go give this thing a serious try out and post the whole test on U Tube. That might be VERY enlightening.

Maybe if more people spent time practicing instead of posting so much rubbish, the average standard of tuba playing might actually improve. To paraphrase Harvey - there are a lot more tuba players - but the percentage who are really good is as small as ever.

[tubainty]

You know in reality the key of the horn matters very little, it is the musician that makes the music the horn is but the instrument.

In my experience the more dedicated players that i have played with use CC tubas not BBb tubas, that's all. So a sousaphone in C makes perfect sense.

Davis

[Ken Herrick]

You know in reality the key of the horn matters very little, it is the musician that makes the music the horn is but the instrument.

In my experience the more dedicated players that i have played with use CC tubas not BBb tubas, that's all. So a sousaphone in C makes perfect sense.

Davis

YES!! it is the player that matters most. A good player can get music out of any trash can; if he puts a radio in it.

THE important thing for any player is to get the best they can out of what they have to work with.

Having used the lot professionally over the years, "learning" different fingerings should NOT be a great hassle for any serious player - it is actually good brain training and can be made much easier simply by learning how to transpose at sight. Master one, then learn the rest, and you will just have that many more "strings for your bow".

Comparing the tools which are available now to what was on the market 40 or 50 years ago - I doubt there is any good reason to say you can't find a top quality instrument in BBb, CC, Eb or F.

For an amateur, recreational player, yes, it would be nice to have a CC sousy if CC was all you had ever played. Such players should not be expected to master the lot, which requires a lot of $$ as well as time.

Really, there are many fine players who do not, and probably never did use a CC.

In any case, keep an open mind and get as broad experience as you can and make the best of the IAA experience. You have some fine examples to follow there.

[Kevin Hendrick]

I'm wondering (but not very much ) if it really is built in C.

It might well be -- the bore, bell diameter, and overall appearance are identical (or nearly so) to the Amati Bb and C sousaphones.

http://www.amatiinstruments.com/sousaphon/

[tubainty]

I can play all the fingerings no problem. I just prefer horns in CC.

[tubaforce]

Hi! I'm pretty sure one can buy a "C" Euphonium! European, most likely! My section mate in a good wind ensemble Plays Tuba in C, Euph in Bb, and a duo gravis bass 'bone! I made it hard(playing BBb/CC/Eb) by THINKING it was hard, and then just started doing it! After all, If a good (yes they DO exist) trombone player can play three axes in 2 keys, and in 3 clefs, plus Euphonium in 2 clefs, we(Tubists) ought to be able to accomplish multiple fingerings standing on our heads! Al.

[Ace]

You know in reality the key of the horn matters very little, it is the musician that makes the music the horn is but the instrument.

In my experience the more dedicated players that i have played with use CC tubas not BBb tubas, that's all. So a sousaphone in C makes perfect sense.

Davis

Is it THAT hard to remember another set of fingerings?
Ever plan to double on Euphonium? Guess what, those are in Bb.

RC

Unless it's a C euphonium. There are some in C, and good ones at that.

Ace

[imperialbari]

I can play all the fingerings no problem. I just prefer horns in CC.

Even if it's crappy? You would prefer a crappy Chinese CC sousaphone with an unusable scale over a high quality , classic, American made BBb sousaphone?

RC

If this thread at all would have been relevant, it should rather have been induced by a real sousaphone in CC. Discussions maybe 8 years ago revealed King having made a short run of CC sousaphones very long ago. Referring to Amati sousaphones cannot be done in a serious debate. I tried a BBb Amati maybe 10 years ago. Plain horrible.

Klaus

[tubaforce]

I wholeheartedly agree about those amati's! I bet you can find an Indian Sousaphone that plays better! The only thing I ever played on worse than an amati souzy was a 3/4 CouesnonBBb! Al.

[tubainty]

I rarely ever play sousaphone, but if the CC souzy is crap and the BBb is good I'll choose the BBb. But if they're of the same caliber I'd have to go with the CC.

I can play all the fingerings no problem. I just prefer horns in CC.

Even if it's crappy? You would prefer a crappy Chinese CC sousaphone with an unusable scale over a high quality , classic, American made BBb sousaphone?

RC

[Todd S. Malicoate]

I rarely ever play sousaphone, but if the CC souzy is crap and the BBb is good I'll choose the BBb. But if they're of the same caliber I'd have to go with the CC.

I'll save you some time. The Bb will be much better.

[SousaWarrior9]

I Emailed the person selling these...here are the facts:
1. The sousa is in BBb and has a 4th trigger to change the key to CC
2. The sousa in the pic is not the CC horn (looks like their BBb)
So I think if it plays in both keys, it covers both markets of traditional BBb sousaphone players and 'lazy' CC players. But then again, the narrow bore makes is an iffy buy.

[tubamlb]

Hi
The picture does not show the Valve ,( 4th lever ) to switch from BBb To CC with out pulling slides

We have sold several and the players all are very happy with them

There was a picture one of our M&M sousas on the for sale page several months ago ,

M&M

[Walter Webb]

Good Lord! A lotta blather about this n' that, but not a single indication or report from anyone who knows diddly-squat about it! I would be interested to hear from someone who has actually tooted it.