worst-paying college degrees...

[tubaforce]

Hello again! No, there is no law requiring one stay in ANY city or state! At least none that I know of! The Executive pay reference comes from the many articles in Time, Newsweek, the internet and other sources! No, I can't name anyone personally that isn't already in the public eye!There are nice areas around the L.A . area! I chose to leave for the Pacific Northwest years ago, but I have friends and family still living in that area. Actually, I earn a higher wage in Portland, and even better in Seattle, than folks in southern California make in my trade. My main beef is the fact that our American middle class is disappearing, almost deliberately being exterminated! Yes I'm tired of the left wingers' hunger for my taxes, but I'm damn sick and tired of the far right attitude that Plumbers, Pipe Fitters, Electricians, Iron Workers, etc.. are overpaid and stupid! We (skilled tradesmen) constantly upgrade our skills and knowledge, so that we can perform our jobs in a manner that PROTECTS the public interest, while reducing cost overruns and re-work! I know people that lost good jobs at Hanford Nuclear site because they had the conscience, and knowledge of what was right to blow the "whistle" on a contractor! They recently prevailed in court, but it was a long fight and cost those men a lot in lost wages! Are you aware that a person earning 30-50 dollars an hour, 40 hours a week, 50 weeks a year is in the top 5% of U.S. in earnings? Sounds great until you realize just how much that money WON'T buy compared to the wages earned by the same tradesmen in the '60's! What do the rest of the folks do to survive? How can it be ok that a man making 15 bucks an hour has to have his wife work too, and MAYBE scrimp by enough to buy a home? And that 15 bucks came at the expense of a college degree! I don't know what the solution to saving the middle class is. Certainly not the extreme socialist attitude of the left! I mean, why should any person be "rewarded" for their ingenuity and success with a 90% tax rate? But the right's treatment of us as a cheap labor pool is certainly not helping! Al.

[sloan]

Are you aware that a person earning 30-50 dollars an hour, 40 hours a week, 50 weeks a year is in the top 5% of U.S. in earnings?

If so, why would you call such a person "middle-class"?

[tubaforce]

That's the sad part! That 70-100 K is still middle class, but not by much in terms of the spending power of those dollars! add to that the assault of "Alternative Minimum Tax" , which eliminated this single parent of 3's LEGITIMATE head of household status ($22,000.00 in write offs NEGATED), and I'm not doing anywhere near as well as I should be! I don't have one, but many of my co-workers are paying 1500 buck a month mortgages! take that out of a $4,000.00 a month take home, start subtracting for food, car payment, insurance, etc.. and it's not great!What has happened is that middle class income in the top 15-5% range doesn't buy but 1/3 of what it used to! And when the top 2-3% of the population earns 80% of the money, that doesn't leave room for the middle class to slice off some of that pie! How can a small business expect to keep a trained, effective work force if they can't afford to pay those people enough to stay? Small business, merchants, and Tradespeople are the backbone of the middle class, and we're being broken in two between corporate greed and tax hungry government! Al.

[Biggs]

It is odd, because my guess is that 99% of legal American citizens probably would not consciously choose to live in L.A.

Count me in the 1%! Moving in August and can't wait!

[Rev Rob]

Living in the north central plains of the U.S.A., I am witness to "progress" in this area of the country and from what I read about in other parts of the country. Change is occurring and it is disruptive and unsettling for a lot of people. People who work hard, play by the rules and end up seeing what they value disparaged, denigrated, or disappear. When people experience such profound shifts and changes in their lives, they get angry. Sad to say the rules, they are a changing. In our world economy, manufacturing goes out to the source who can built it the cheapest (i.e. China) and yet maintain quality control needed to satisfy the buying public (us). That is why there will continue to be a market for Chinese tubas and it will continue to grow; and at whose expense? The workers who build King and Kanstul tubas here in America, even the builders of European tubas. As we become beholden to a world economy and the rules change, we have to change and adapt ourselves or we will be left behind. We have to learn how to be creative, adaptive, flexible and responsive in our manufacturing, in the services we offer, or the business will go somewhere else. To learn these new rules is painful, especially for folks who are in their 40's, 50's and 60's. Bloke and Tubatinker, I am sure you have had to learn new skills, new ways of working, promoting your service and skills in order to survive. A lot of us have had to do so. This is not our father's world, it is a brave new world. People who see the world around them changing are not happy - this is why the Tea Party exists. They do have a right to speak their minds and demonstrate their feelings - this is a constitutionally protected right. But having said that, it will not stop the world from changing. Bloke mentioned how a Miraphone 186 was a rarity 40 years age, but now it is common for people to own a quality tuba. When the standard of living is raised, it is easier to afford a Miraphone, a Rudolf Meinl, or Meinl Weston, or B & S. But there is a price to pay: two earner families are the norm, more single head of household families, weakened family structure, uncertainty and anxiety concerning the future, old valued institutions are under attack, such as large symphony orchestras. But life continues on - the question: how will we adapt to it? That is the $64 question.

[Rev Rob]

People who see the world around them changing are not happy - this is why the Tea Party exists.

My understanding of the movement is that it is a reaction (not to "change" per se, but) to the (perceived?)intentional destruction of Liberty.

This is a case of perception of reality. We all have to answer the question: "What is truth?" A difficult one to answer and for all to agree to the answer.

[TUBAD83]

People who see the world around them changing are not happy - this is why the Tea Party exists.

My understanding of the movement is that it is a reaction (not to "change" per se, but) to the (perceived?)intentional destruction of Liberty.

This is a case of perception of reality. We all have to answer the question: "What is truth?" A difficult one to answer and for all to agree to the answer.

The truth is some people want to go back to a time when things were simpler and everyone knew their place.

The truth is some people find it easier to complain and "just say no" rather trying to work problems out.

The truth is some people do not have a problem with rights being taken away from others under the guise of "national security"

The truth is some people don't want change EVER.

JJ

[Rev Rob]

Fight for your opinions, but do not believe that they contain the whole truth, or the only truth.
~ Charles A. Dana

[TUBAD83]

This thread went off track long time ago---just "goin with the flow"

Joe:

Just as you resent the fact that money is taken away to fund "social programs", I resent the the fact that we have to pay over a trillion dollars a year on the most expensive military ever. So lets have the citizens decide on the Fed budget--in its entirety. Let the majority decide whats to be cut, kept, decreased, increased--the majority rules. Hard to argue against that, don't you think?

And by the way, I will put away my Obama sign if you put away your far right wing sign

JJ

[tubaforce]

Happy Monday! I just want to mention that I have a bumper sticker in my rear window! It reads:"Who is the President?...The answer is a No-Brainer!" I have another stating: "Politicians and diapers need changing for the SAME reason!" Both of those stickers have been on display for 3 years and counting! And I don't foresee removing EITHER one any time soon! Al.

[UTSAtuba]

POLITICS =

Joseph "trolls are the devil"

[tbn.al]

POLITIC(ians) =

Joseph "trolls are the devil"

Allow me one minor edit.

[lgb&dtuba]

This thread went off track long time ago---just "goin with the flow"

So lets have the citizens decide on the Fed budget--in its entirety. Let the majority decide whats to be cut, kept, decreased, increased--the majority rules. Hard to argue against that, don't you think?

A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until a majority of voters discover that they can vote themselves largess out of the public treasury.
- Alexander Tytler

Anything can be argued against.

[TUBAD83]

This thread went off track long time ago---just "goin with the flow"

So lets have the citizens decide on the Fed budget--in its entirety. Let the majority decide whats to be cut, kept, decreased, increased--the majority rules. Hard to argue against that, don't you think?

A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until a majority of voters discover that they can vote themselves largess out of the public treasury.
- Alexander Tytler

Anything can be argued against.

Well thats the chance we take---exercising our liberty is a very risky business, right?

CK--as a supply sergeant in the US Army (1984-1992) I can tell you from personal experience DoD can go through cash faster than a drunken private on payday, and its only gotten worse since I left. I would never suggest scrapping the military but I do think its time to do a complete review and make changes where needed. IMHO, there is no justification to shell out a trillion dollars for military that's ONE HALF the size it was 20 years ago.

JJ

[elimia]

GUYS - NO POLITICS ON TUBENET!!!! SEAN HAS REPEATEDLY SAID THIS. GO FIND A POLITICAL CHATROOM.

[tbn.al]

This is not really a post about polictics. This is really a pissin contest. The subject could be anything, just happens to be politics today. I even saw one on here once about the weather, warming, cooling, something weather related.

[Rev Rob]

Bloke, you would be right at home out here in Montana, and it is not as humid as Western Tennessee.

[Biggs]

I voted for Kodos.