is the tuba a hazardous profession?

[Donn]

I've been reading reports from the current mess in Greece that say wind instrument musicians get hazardous occupation status in their retirement system.

Brief survey of articles about this issue didn't turn up any original source material, though, just a couple of widely quoted news articles that cite a couple of occupations supposedly on the list. Anyone happen to be on top of this? I'd like to see the full list (in English, ideally.)

[windshieldbug]

I don't have the full list, but from an article in the New York Times,

"As a consequence of decades of bargains struck between strong unions and weak governments, Greece has promised early retirement to about 700,000 employees, or 14 percent of its work force, giving it an average retirement age of 61, one of the lowest in Europe.

The law includes dangerous jobs like coal mining and bomb disposal. But it also covers radio and television presenters, who are thought to be at risk from the bacteria on their microphones, and musicians playing wind instruments, who must contend with gastric reflux as they puff and blow."

[tbn.al]

The last bit of that NYT article is a bit telling.

That’s certainly true of Christos Bourdakis, a retired government accountant. Sitting in a dusty union hall in Athens, he is in no mood to offer any concession on his pension, regardless of the severity of the crisis.

He is a full-throated proponent of a system that pays him a yearly gross pension of 30,000 euros, or $41,000, MORE than he was making when he retired 13 years ago at the age of 60. He has even written a book in defense of it, “The Guide to Granting Civil Service Pensions in Greece.”

“We have to protect our standard of living,” Mr. Bourdakis said. “The pensioners should not have to pay for the crisis created by the bankers.”

[Donn]

$41,000, MORE than he was making when he retired 13 years ago at the age of 60.

Think that comparison is adjusted for inflation? If the reporter had done so, I believe he would have said so. $41K in 2010 is really less than $31K in 1996. I'm sure it's a good deal, but it isn't really more than he was making, more likely a good deal less.

That's the kind of thing that prompted me to ask if anyone had a link to the source information. The two or three reporters who filed stories on this, are obviously here to rake the Greeks over the coals, and more blogs and what all than you can count have jumped on it in the same spirit. So, fine, but here we are playing wind instruments ... ah, maybe it would help if I cut back on practice? (Though I don't see how I could cut back much more!)

[rocksanddirt]

I don't believe any private sector retirement funds are "adjusted for inflation". Were they, all of these funds (just as is Greece) would surely all be bankrupt.

bloke "who is certainly not advocating for inflation"

It depends on the type. Defined Benefit plans (what are now pretty much only government plans) like the autoworkers and teamsters used to offer often have a "cost of living adjustment" in them. Defined contribution plans (401k's, IRA's, etc.) don't.

[rocksanddirt]

I don't believe any private sector retirement funds are "adjusted for inflation". Were they, all of these funds (just as is Greece) would surely all be bankrupt.

bloke "who is certainly not advocating for inflation"

It depends on the type. Defined Benefit plans (what are now pretty much only government plans) like the autoworkers and teamsters used to offer often have a "cost of living adjustment" in them.

well...Those plans are not only funded by individuals' past contributions, but (just as with other Ponzi schemes) by current membership and work dues...yes...?? (and now additionally by government bailouts via debt and the printing press).

It depends. CalPERS (the california state employee's system) is funded through member contributions, sponsoring agency contributions, and investiments of the contributions. No separate tax money goes into it. Now the sponsoring agencies are putting in tax money, but not for people who are not currently employed (as I understand it). So, if their investment stuff goes bad....there will likely be problems.