New 983's and Old 983's, primary differences?

[djwesp]

Hi all,

I'm curious to hear some input on what are the technical differences between the old run 983's and the new run 983's?
So far I noticed the lack of a compensating side tubing spit valve, and an improvement in overall construction. The new ones play quite different than the old ones and was curious if anyone had any more specifics in what the differences were?

[Tom Holtz]

I'm assuming the valve block is totally different.

[djwesp]

I don't think so. It appears to be exactly the same.

[mdc2d]

I asked the very same question at the Besson booth at ITEC. From what I remember, the main difference is the leadpipe and maybe some slight changes in bore sizes in the valve block. But the rep said the main difference is the leadpipe... specifically what is different, I am not sure.

Thats all I got...

[joh_tuba]

I'm thinking they tweaked the wrap into and out of the main tuning slide to correct the always plays flat issue that plagues the old run 983s.

[djwesp]

Is the question that is being asked here regarding English vs. German production? Were the original 983 Eb's made in England?

In a way. More specifically, 983's made under the besson umbrella, prior to the stoppage in production and 983's made under the buffet umbrella, following "redesign".

I do think they were made in England in the first run.

[bbocaner]

They were made in England, then made in England using parts made by Keilwerth/Schreiber in Markneukirchen. Then they were made entirely by Keilwerth/Schreiber. And now they are made by Gerhard Meinl.

The valve block is indeed different now, the casings are visibly thicker. I understand ALL the tooling is new, so there may be a large number of subtle differences. Some of the smaller branches are now hydroformed which they didn't used to do. I'll bet there are a lot more differences in how they are manufactured.

[djwesp]

They were made in England, then made in England using parts made by Keilwerth/Schreiber in Markneukirchen. Then they were made entirely by Keilwerth/Schreiber. And now they are made by Gerhard Meinl.

The valve block is indeed different now, the casings are visibly thicker. I understand ALL the tooling is new, so there may be a large number of subtle differences. Some of the smaller branches are now hydroformed which they didn't used to do. I'll bet there are a lot more differences in how they are manufactured.

The valve block is the same. Here is the official word from the Besson factory.

Actually-

The new lead pipe is on the 995 CC tuba. We have done very little to the new 983 other than better manufacturing, and taken the water key off the 4th valve.

Thank you, Tim

[bbocaner]

Probably a question of semantics. What's considered "better manufacturing" and what's considered a "new design"? I don't believe anything's different with the bore throughout the valves, or the layout, but the metal of the casings certainly is thicker. If you look at two of them side by side it's obvious. The "Tim" you've quoted is Tim Ornato, no? He's a great guy but he's in distribution and sales so that's hardly word directly from manufacturing -- and by the way, there is no "Besson factory" -- they're made under contract at someone else's factory.

[pigman]

The new horns are made by Mienl on new tooling. The old English tooling is at Schrieber Keilworth and was used to build the YORK line. The discussion may soon be moot as Schrieber Kielworth is in administration and my soon be part of Buffet. The Buffet owners are slowly rebuilding the component companies of the Boosey & Hawkes ( the music group)

Ray

[Bob Kolada]

Has anyone else here played the Jupiter 983 copy? I don't remember anything about the one I played.