To F, or not to F?

[Jedi Master]

I was just ruminating over the "trend" toward using an F tuba for brass quintets.

What about using a small CC (or, for that matter, a BBb)? Much of the BQ literature requires a good low register, even though a "lighter" sound is also desirable.

The issue is not necessarily the length of the tube, but the width (of the sound).

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Warning: RANT

I dunno. Back in the old days, when there was less money around for kids, nobody in my college tuba studio had access to an F, so we all played everything on contrabass.

It seems now that every high school student *needs* to have an F, in order to blend in chamber ensembles. Is it me, or is something out of whack?

[Chen]

For brass quintet I don't feel as much low range power is needed as when play in a band or orchestra. Finesse really goes a long way in quintets. It is, after all, "chamber music."

[TexTuba]

I was just ruminating over the "trend" toward using an F tuba for brass quintets.

What about using a small CC (or, for that matter, a BBb)? Much of the BQ literature requires a good low register, even though a "lighter" sound is also desirable.

The issue is not necessarily the length of the tube, but the width (of the sound).

*******************************************************************************************************************************************************************
Warning: RANT

I dunno. Back in the old days, when there was less money around for kids, nobody in my college tuba studio had access to an F, so we all played everything on contrabass.

It seems now that every high school student *needs* to have an F, in order to blend in chamber ensembles. Is it me, or is something out of whack?

Well of course you can use a small contrabass for BQ!

[cwarren]

I don't think you necessarily HAVE to play chamber music on an F tuba. I think you should choose what sounds most appropriate for the group. Also, take in to consideration the hall you will be playing in! If a small CC works, go for it!! If it takes an F, what the heck! Have fun "chambering".

[Wyvern]

I have been using my F in quintet, but 3 weeks weeks ago had rehearsal straight before concert band, so tried using my Neptune at a quintet rehearsal. It actually worked VERY well and the group liked the sound. Some pieces seemed to sound better with the 6/4 CC

Last week I tried the Neptune in concert with the quintet and we afterwards got comments from a musician listening of how well balanced the group sounded.

So I am now reconsidering which tuba is best overall to use for quintet playing and plan to record the next few rehearsals on my H2 using my three tubas to help decide.

However my initial thoughts are that if one want blend, then F is best - and also of course easier for high register solo passages. But a CC provides a more solid bass foundation and even in quintet the tuba provides bass the majority of the time.

[Michael Bush]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CsS71W_HK0c" target="_blank

Of course, not everyone is Pokorny, and not every big CC is that one.

[bort]

BQ is all about blend. And it does matter who you're playing with.

15 years ago, Warren Deck designed the MW 2155 as *the* tuba for Brass Quintet for him. Though it's hardly the "go to" tuba most of us think of for quintet.

I say give it a try (if you can) and see how it goes... you are only 20% of the group so listen to their opinions closely.

[Rick Denney]

Yes, it matters with whom you are playing. It would take a pretty strong quintet for it not to sound like tuba accompaniment if the tuba player has a 6/4 BAT in his hands, especially if the room is large and resonant. But it isn't just the size of the sound, it's also its timbre. Many brass quintets use a bass trombone instead of a tuba, and only tuba players really dislike the result. Compared to the rest of the ensemble, a really deep-sounding tuba will be a tonal outlier. That tonal issue can be a problem even with a smaller instrument. I get that effect listening to 1950's recordings of the New York Brass Quintet (with Phillips on tuba), but less so with Jacobs playing the York in the CSO quintet. A quintet sound requires a strong commitment to tonal clarity. If I used my Holton in quintet, I would probably play it with the Sellmansberger Solo that I use with my F tuba.

But what you are playing also matters. It will be more difficult to make a contrabass tuba sound correct when playing Renaissance or Baroque works than with the Cheetham Scherzo. And an F tuba will make it more difficult to emulate the felt-rather-than-heard thump of a bass when playing a jazz arrangement. An understanding of the appropriate sound in the player's head is more important than the instrument.

Rick "finding the breadth of quintet lit to be a rare opportunity for the tuba player to learn different historical styles" Denney

[Stefan]

Good thread and relevant to my current situation. I have played C in quintet for many years and I think it works fine. But I do think it can be heavy at times. I think Rick is right on the mark with his comments regarding the type of music being played. If you have 2 tubas, try both and see which one works best in your situation. But I warn you that if the rest of the quitet are already used to hearing a C, I bet they will prefer it. That's what happened with me when I was playing with a group for a long time and then out of the blue brought an F to rehearsal. They were very so so on the sound. But they were used to a different sound at that point. I will be starting in a brand new quintet shortly and I currently only have a C. But I am considering switching exclusively to F and I hope they don't get too used to C.

Stefan

[Jonathan Fowler]

I agree with Bloke - it's all about the literature that you're playing. I would dream of playing something like "Shadow Catcher" on my CC, nor would I play the F on Jazz/Dixie charts.

Does anyone actually play Malcolm Arnold on F?

[windshieldbug]

My "go to" horn for quintet is a Mirafone 184 CC. But even in the Symphony Brass Quintet, I would use my Meinl F, an old Distin Eb, or even my Marzan on a big piece.

If you want to do it right, you need to bring 4 horns to try, just as the trumpet players do. And a bunch of mouthpieces. Only the quad case for tubas is a little bigger...