A search for a beast

[Steve Marcus]

BUMP
I got a hold of Dale today.

I thought that he sold his tuba collection some time ago.

Also sent Dr. Young an email. I got a reply back from Fred, real quick in fact. I may be on to something here...

If you're referring to your dream project of building a subcontrabass tuba, you've probably discussed Dr. Young's BBb/EEE silver subcontrabass tuba. I believe that his primary purpose in designing this instrument was to build a tuba that offered essentially perfect intonation by opting for either "side" of a double tuba with the keys in which it is built a tritone apart from each other. Apparently, Dr. Young still plays this tuba in some ensembles with his choice of his upright or forward bell, as pictured here:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_wNyJ5HlOunc/R ... G_0303.JPG

[Dean E]

. . . . The tooling doesn't obviously exist, BUT I figured someone ought to know how to make such a brass piece by hand using like a wooden template or jig - or something, ya know like how band instrument manufacturers did way back in the day. . . .

Two or more individual lasers may be programed to focus intersecting beams in a container of polymeric liquid. The locally generated heat causes the polymer to cure, thereby creating a three-dimensional, solid object. This is the same beaming technology that is used to focus radiation on a cancer or other tumor.

Merely find a smart student (in the US or abroad), or someone from Craig's List, who knows CAD (Computer Aided Design) to define the bell in three-space, using simple analytic geometry or calculus-based algorithms.

Then, find a big tank, fill it with liquid polymeric resin, and generate the calculated bell shape. Either use the product for (1) the bell itself, (2) as a mold for making a fiberglass bell, or (3) as the surface of a solid form/mandrel for manually hammering a brass bell. The craftsman could even generate a series of intermediate forms/mandrels for hand hammering.

[imperialbari]

You likely are looking for instruments by Kalashen.

My Yahoo based brass galleries have 4 Kalashen entries : a horn, an Eb sousaphone (quite similar to Conn), a rotary CC tuba, and a rotary BBb tuba.

The index is here:

http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/Yo ... %20format/

Klaus

[David Richoux]

. . . . The tooling doesn't obviously exist, BUT I figured someone ought to know how to make such a brass piece by hand using like a wooden template or jig - or something, ya know like how band instrument manufacturers did way back in the day. . . .

Two or more individual lasers may be programed to focus intersecting beams in a container of polymeric liquid. The locally generated heat causes the polymer to cure, thereby creating a three-dimensional, solid object. This is the same beaming technology that is used to focus radiation on a cancer or other tumor.

Merely find a smart student (in the US or abroad), or someone from Craig's List, who knows CAD (Computer Aided Design) to define the bell in three-space, using simple analytic geometry or calculus-based algorithms.

Then, find a big tank, fill it with liquid polymeric resin, and generate the calculated bell shape. Either use the product for (1) the bell itself, (2) as a mold for making a fiberglass bell, or (3) as the surface of a solid form/mandrel for manually hammering a brass bell. The craftsman could even generate a series of intermediate forms/mandrels for hand hammering.

The technical term for this is Stereolithography. There may be a few places that could handle something that large, but it would not be cheap. I was involved with a prototype design for a GPS company that used the process, but it was nowhere near this big. Look here for one company that does the process, in a variety of materials. I have not worked with them.

[Tubadork]

What do you want to use this for?

[pigman]

The bell flair is actualy he easiest part to make on an instrument body. Chect the Thomas register on line for metal spinners . You will need to provide them with a drawing or pay them to make a drawing. The flair is made from a brass disc formed over a chuck (mandrell ) For a short run the chuck can be made from treated hardwood or phenolic resin material.you can probably find someone to spin it for 2,000.00 It takes about 20 minutes with an annealing between.
you would need to solder it to the existing bend of the sousaphone. and good luck finding someone to buff and lacquer it!!!

ray

[pigman]

Oh yea I forgot . wear a body harness while playing in the wind

[eupher61]

Heck I might even tour the country when I write my book with it!

wow. that WILL be a multi-purpose sousaphone...

[sloan]

Anderson Plating said that it might cost about 800 to silver plate the bell, an estimation until I actually take measurements and have one built.

Would that be satin silver on the outside, with a gold wash on the inside?

[J.c. Sherman]

You're going to need one hell of a lathe to turn a bell that large. Finding a 37-38 inch wide piece of brass (wide enough to put in a bead and leave the final product at 36 inches). That's a 19 inch radius lathe. Ouch!

[Dean E]

You're going to need one hell of a lathe to turn a bell that large. Finding a 37-38 inch wide piece of brass (wide enough to put in a bead and leave the final product at 36 inches). That's a 19 inch radius lathe. Ouch!

No problem. A lathe with a 19 inch swing is a pup. Vertical turret lathes (VTLs) are common. For example, this 56 inch diameter Bullard VTL is very small as VTLs go.

[J.c. Sherman]

Not so common, I think, in an instrument shop with a polished instrument maker available next to it. But I could be mistaken (and that's a MOTHER lathe in that pic!!!)

J.c.S.

[cjk]

BUMP
I got a hold of Dale today.
Also sent Dr. Young an email.

Still no clue how to find Bob Pucci - he's a tuba player. Someone's got to know.

EDIT::

I got a reply back from Fred, real quick in fact. I may be on to something here...

Go look at this, the seller's name is robertpucci:
http://cgi.ebay.com/1896-Diston-3-valve ... 2a075e4946" target="_blank

[mcfolks]

Hi, Ian,

I have a 1937 Holton Short Action, sousaphone I picked up last year. Dan S. said he only knew of 4 and he had one of them- the other three were in private collections! I currently have the valve block at Andersons getting a complete valve job- I anxious to get it back... patience- I know. I live in the thumb- would love to see your Conn Jumbo!

Keith

[sloan]

Ok, say I find a machinist to spin just the flare, do anyone know someone that would be able to make the back right angle connector bit?
I may* have found a company out in Colorado that can make anything up to 138-inches.

*Still waiting for a reply

Do you want a bell, or a bell-shaped object?

[Steve Marcus]

At least one of Chuck Daellenbach's Yamaha tubas has had a carbon fiber bell. Among other reasons for choosing this, the lighter weight allowed/allows him to move around while playing, including lying on his back.

Luis & Clark is a company that advertises their carbon fiber bowed string instruments with glowing accolades from major conductors.

[emcallaway]

Just off the top of my head and very fault memory, wasn't it a guy by the name of George McCracken that was doing the beginning work on the carbon fiber bells. Check with Chuck of Canadian Brass fame. I remember having a discussion with him about the CF bells.

I can confirm that George McCracken assembled the horn in his shop. However, I can't confirm if he made the carbon fiber bell or not.

Ian, if you're interested in McCracken's contact information, send me a PM.

[Dean E]

I read some posts/threads about carbon fiber after Harvey mentioned it to me - anyone know some more? Or perhaps a detailed investigation of the sound properties of carbon fiber used for the bell?

It would sure be lighter, and from reading about CF cellos and violins, it may be a worthy material for resonance.

Still need to make a mold though...

I have a modest proposal. Custom cars and motorcycles are made by adding fiberglass/resin to standard body parts. If size is really that important, then perhaps modifying an extra fiberglass Sousaphone bell (having the correct size collar) with fiberglass cloth and resin might be fun. I'm envisioning adding a few inches to the outside diameter of the basic bell. It would call for a mold, but a strong mold would not be needed because sheet brass would not be deformed against the mold. Just a partially baked idea.