Biggs wrote:Which pays more? Personal satisfaction is what I seek on my own time. Financial compensation is my main goal in operating a tuba, infrequent though it may be.
That might be a big issue in peoples' preferences. There are probably a lot more chances to get paid with orchestras (though that's still not saying much).
I only ever operate a tuba on my own time. (I think I got paid once about thirty or so years ago for a Corpus Christi parade at a church, but I'm not completely sure.) So if playing doesn't bring personal satisfaction, it has absolutely no point in my life.
Wind Ensemble orchestral excerpts or Orchestra. Concert band, eh.
When I was performing on euphonium I always preferred orchestral transcriptions and music written for orchestral wind ensemble over music written for concert band. The concept of chamber music, one on a part, always was more enjoyable. On euphonium I was like an operatic soloist, especially in Holst (Suite in F, Eb, Lincoln shire Polsey) and orchestral transcriptions.
For tuba, either one, band or orchestra was good. But orchestra would win out because of the variety of tonal colors and character one could achieve through great orchestral writing.
the elephant wrote:
That is my two cents. Try to not spend it all in one place!
Wade, what is that $.000003 per word?
Only time for short answer while waiting for my wife to dress for church. One on a part! After that nothing else matters. Orch, Quintet, Bone choir, etc.
Ah, yes -- maybe so about the length of my post. But I actually answered the question that was asked!
I answered it too, and included the why as well. One on a part in the brass. I wasn't complaining about the legnth of your post as much as I was the necessity to shorten mine.
I am fortunate to have a great job that feeds my family well, but music feeds my soul.
I have had no opportunity to play in an orchestra, except for 35+ years ago in HS when I played bass trombone. I have played in wind ensembles, and generally like the music that is scored for those groups. I play in a marching band, which I really enjoy, although most of our charts are either dumbed down marches or pep band music (I am working on getting some original scores for some traditional marches, however...) as well as a tuba ensemble, with a director who is an amazing arranger, and does a nice job challenging us on a variety of music, from marches to video game tunes. Two community bands round out my groups. One tuba in the marching band and one concert band, two or three tubas in the other concert band, and five 4ths/ four 3rds for the tuba ensemble. Three seems about right for a concert band...I'd love more tubas in the marching band!
I have friends who are wind players in local orchestras (flute and bassoon) and I hear their concerts often...it feels to me like those concerts are missing something that is present when I hear a good wind ensemble...just my ears, I guess.
So, I guess I prefer the band/wind ensemble to the orchestra, both for listening and playing.
OK, if some musical parameters may be discarded in favour of others, then I like a march played like this one (but I wouldn’t want to be in that band):
The answer to which I prefer depends on whether we are talking about listening or playing. For listening I almost always prefer an orchestra. Primarily for the reasons that Joe mentions. I went to a Toledo Symphony concert on Friday in which they played what I guess could best be called a "pops" concert. The music selected was an homage to New York and Carnegie Hall, since they will be playing there later this year. Everything they played were things that would commonly be played by concert bands or wind ensembles. Yet when played by an orchestra the dynamic range and tonal quality were just more pleasing to listen to. The only exception was probably Sing-Sing Sing, which they closed the concert with. That could have used a little more punch.
For playing I always prefer brass ensembles or bands as a tuba player. Even though much of what we do is somewhat repetitive, I find it more interesting when we do get something a little more complex. The times I have played with an orchestra (amateur) I was bored most of the time. I found myself wishing I still played cello.
Besson 983
Henry Distin 1897 BBb tuba
Henry Distin 1898 BBb Helicon
Eastman EBB226
I'm going to restate the bloody obvious, I guess. I do that a lot.
As a tuba player in an orchestra, you spend most of your time sitting, listening to other members play beautiful music in the most sonically gorgeous ensembles on the planet. When you get your turn to play, you have the opportunity to produce many of the most challenging passages of terrifyingly exposed tuba playing in the world. Then you get to sit again, sometimes for a long, long time, listening to the rest of the orchestra (strings in particular) producing sublime passages of consummate artistry, waiting for your turn to shine. For tuba players, orchestras seem mostly an opportunity to listen.
As a tuba player in a band, you play far more than you rest. You may be in a tiny group and responsible for all the bottom end of the group, or you may be part of a larger section. You probably are responsible for playing parts that vary from the most depressingly boring twaddle ever written to technical passages that stretch your abilities to the utmost. Sometimes you can hide your inadequacies within a large section, and sometimes you are every bit as exposed as an orchestral player. Unless you are in an accomplished group, you'll spend a lot of your time playing entertainment pieces rather than meaty stuff. Even the best bands don't have the sonic variety of a good orchestra.
Personally, I never get the opportunity to play in an orchestra any more, so I play in four bands. The most satisfying groups for me are the smaller ones. The bigger a band, the more homogenized the sound and the less I feel that I actually contribute. I really enjoy playing in groups of 30 or fewer, whether they be a brass band, a historical musical ensemble, or a small wind ensemble. Larger groups are just not as much fun. I would honestly love to do orchestral work again, but small towns have very limited orchestral opportunities, especially for mediocre players.
JP/Sterling 377 compensating Eb; Warburton "The Grail" T.G.4, RM-9 7.8, Yamaha 66D4; for sale > 1914 Conn Monster Eb (my avatar), ca. 1905 Fillmore Bros 1/4-size Eb, Bach 42B trombone
I don't really have a preference. As long as the horn is in my lap and I have the oopportunity to make good music come out the other end, I'm a happy guy.
That said:
I have had equally satisfying musical experiences in both. BUT the majority of my playing has been in the band realm, so it is by virtue of number of opportunities for said satisfaction that the number in band situations have equaled the ones in my more limited orchestral playing. I would much rather listen to a mediocre string section play the adagio from Tchaik 4 than to listen to a decent clarinet section play the hurricane runs in the Shosty 5 Finale transcription. So, by that metric - for me - the orchestral medium would be far more satisfying IF I had a regular opportunity for those experiences. If I had to choose between playing in a community band or a community orchestra that both rehearsed on Tuesday evening, I would probably opt for the orchestra.
Clear as mud?
SD
I am convinced that 90% of the problems with rhythm, tone, intonation, articulation, technique, and overall prowess on the horn are related to air issues.
I am very jealous!!!! Sounds like many of you have a myriad of opportunties to play. Living in a small town I'm lucky to have a small comm. college band 30 miles away that allow non students to play.I do enjoy your disscussions and experiences.Wish we had more places to play and fewer politicians.
Yes, I prefer listening to an orchestra over a band, when playing music composed for orchestras. And, given that listening is what the tuba player is usually doing, that's a good thing.
And I prefer to listen to a band when playing music written for (professional) band.
I also don't like most modern original composition for bands for the reasons expressed earlier. They are too much designed to show off a school band's ability to memorize complicated rhythms rather than expressing a coherent (or--Heaven forbid!--beautiful) musical idea. Occasionally, the music shines through. But when it has, it has usually been at the hands of a composer also proven in the orchestra ranks (Holst, Vaughan Williams, Grainger, etc.) Of course, some modern compositions for orchestra are also fast earning their spot in well-deserved future obscurity, or it is to be hoped. I've played some church orchestra gigs, for example, that were not easy to enjoy.
I prefer orchestral transcriptions that capture the color of the orchestra rather than merely attempt to keep people busy (Hindsley comes to mind as a positive example). The war horses written for the seminal professional bands (e.g. Goldman Band, Sousa Band, etc.) often do just that. The transcriptions written for modern school bands often suffer the same tendencies as original compositions. Capturing color usually requires trying to hollow out the mezzo-everything that characterizes the sound of most amateur bands.
I greatly prefer the availability of bands to players like me. I have played in an orchestra, and I revere that memory. But that amateur orchestra was quite limited in its repertoire by the overall ability and size of the group, which meant that orchestral music with legendary tuba parts were rarely in the program (Brahms 2 and Academic Festival Overture are two notable exceptions in my memory). I have, on occasion, subbed in regional orchestras where I've gotten a shot at some good stuff, but almost never in a performance (Poulenc Gloria is an exception). I love being the solo tuba voice in an orchestra. So, while I might prefer playing in a good orchestra to playing in a band, any orchestra good enough to routinely program the music I would like to be a part of would have available a better tuba player than myself.
Mostly, I just like playing music. Doing so means deciding to enjoy what's out there that I can fit into my life and my abilities.
Rick "who'd rather be on the stage than sitting out front" Denney
I have played and had fun in both band and orchestra and have many memories from them. Have to say, though, that band will have a lot more for the tuba(s) to play.
I seem to have a bit more *fun* playing band/wind ensemble/symphonic band music than I did in orchestra. I really enjoy brass quintet too. It's all really personal opinion though.
Rick Denney wrote:
I prefer orchestral transcriptions that capture the color of the orchestra rather than merely attempt to keep people busy (Hindsley comes to mind as a positive example).
Rick "who'd rather be on the stage than sitting out front" Denney
I completely agree with your sign-off quote, Rick. And, interestingly, we are rehearsing a Hindsley transcription of Ruslan and Ludmilla in the San Antonio Wind Symphony, right now. It is quite enjoyable.
Rick Denney wrote:I also don't like most modern original composition for bands for the reasons expressed earlier. They are too much designed to show off a school band's ability to memorize complicated rhythms rather than expressing a coherent (or--Heaven forbid!--beautiful) musical idea.
Is this term provincial (local to me), or is the term for these, "band piece", fairly universal?
If I had to pick one term, it would be "academic". They are written by academics for academic purposes and to fulfill academic requirements. Only occasionally does such a piece rise above that context.
The stuff written for professional bands, however, were written to entertain real audiences with no regard for merely demonstrating specific skills. The war horses were often written for the pro bands of old (Goldman, Sousa, etc.) or for the pro bands of new (premiere military bands). Some may have been written for college bands and for school use back before the contest culture turned school music into just another extracurricular sport.
I haven't read all of the posts... but some broad generalizations from my experience from community groups of varying levels:
-- the orchestra wind players are better (take it more seriously than the band people)
-- the orchestra wind players don't typically want to play in bands
-- good band players would like a chance to play in an orchestra
