Summer Drum Corps - Harmful?

[Amilcare]

I have now had 5 students go off to the drum corps and return with definite setbacks to their progress as players. Most annoying has been the pressure to buy a certain brand of mouthpiece even though they are using a quality mouthpiece already.

Have others had this problem?

Also, should the drum corps community be put on notice that their behavior is unwanted and deleterious?

[alfredr]

This is my first post here on tubenet, but I have been watching a while. I would have two questions in response:

1. Did they have fun?

2. Is it really going to hurt their chances of becoming the top tuba players in the world?

3. I have two sons who both did 5 years of drum corps and loved it. One, euphonium, I think hasn't played anything since; the other, tuba, has played in a community band and other groups.

4. I'm pretty sure Chris Martin, principal trumpet Chicago Symphony, marched with Phantom Regiment and still managed to develop as a player. (But that is on trumpet.)

5. Personally, I am a rank amateur and as Groucho Marx said, I wouldn't want to belong to any group that would have me as a member.

alfredr

[djwesp]

It is not uncommon for them to be asked to switch mouthpieces.

When you have matched instruments and matched mouthpieces, it is a heck of a lot easier to work on blend and likeness in sound. Mouthpiece depth being similar also makes the tuning equal out across the board for all players.

Gone are the days of pushing the mouthpiece as hard as you can to your face, playing as loud as possible, and high mark times.

Legitimate Drum Corps is full of brass musicians with crazy good chops, here are just a few instructors off the top of my head:

JD Shaw, extremely world renowned hornist
Pat Sheridan, no explanation needed
Sam Pilafian, no explanation needed
Pete Bond, Trumpet/New York Metropolitan Opera
Al Chez, Trumpet David Letterman
Christian Carichner, tubist/clinician
Chris Martin, CSO Trumpet
--tons more

The only adverse effects I had from marching Drum Corps were that playing every single day reinforced all of my habits, good or bad. When it came time to change my embouchure, the stupid crap I had done every summer for 7 years was much harder to change. The best way to get around that is to start with good fundamental playing. It was also incredibly hard to come back to a High School or College marching band and be a positive, contributing member.

[bort]

Tell them they can march, but they have to be bass dummers...

[TubaCoopa]

It also depends on how they are playing. Some players develop a completely different "marching" embouchure from their regular "concert" embouchure, usually designed specifically for volume at the sacrifice of tone, articulation, and many of the other fundamentals of playing. While this in itself is not necessarily detrimental to development as a player, it has the capability to do so. From my experience, I felt that I did not progress as much as I did during marching season as I did during the Winter and Spring. However, there are plenty of fine musicians who marched, as stated earlier. It all depends on the individual.

[GJDavis1]

I marched with a top drum corps for 5 years. I can tell you that the group I marched with never sacrificed tone quality, intonation, or tuning for volume ever. The brass staff was full of very good music educators and brass pedagogues who wanted to develop good fundamental skills in us as musicians. There are some setbacks playing-wise to marching corps...none of these were detrimental to me. There were also some very positive things I received from marching corps for a long time. Here is a list of pro's and con's that I experienced:

Pros- Very good center of pitch, good concept of tuning and intonation. Ability to take high level criticism and just plain listen to my teachers. Ability to deal with high levels of stress when put in situations that I was not comfortable with. Also, as I was a beginning tuba player when I first started, my drum corps teachers taught me how to articulate efficiently and helped me develop lip slurs.

Cons- High and low ranges suffer, since most music is smack in the middle of the register, and you aren't given time to practice outside of rehearsal. Depending on how you hold your horn, you could end up using extra un-needed pressure. This was actually my own fault and not the instructor's fault.

For me, the pros outweigh the cons by a lot. But it isn't for everyone. Take a long hard look at what you want out of your summer before you decide to do it.

[ZNC Dandy]

I've never participated in a Drum Corps. I have listened to many, and have been impressed by alot of them. I'm not a MEDICAL doctor, so I have no opinion about the "safety" of playing in a corps, as far as chops are concerned. If people want to do it, the by all means do it. Live your life while you can. There are a TON of wonderful musicians (and some tuba players too ) who have marched corps. My biggest issue lately is with the "electronic enhancement", what a load. The other issue is, that its very expensive, and I would rather be paid to play my tuba, than pay to play my tuba.

[toobagrowl]

I guess if your kids want to do it and it makes them happy, then OK......
But every time I have seen and heard Drum Corps, I immediately get the impression of "music sport" Basically it is an athletic, musical 'sport'. Very similar to marching band. I have heard some decent sounds from some of them, but nothing that really made my ears go WOW like a good concert band or symphony orchestra or brass quintet.

[jon112780]

I've taught drum corps the past couple years, and teaching them (nearly always) as a section, is not in what you would call a masterclass 'format'. The (take for instance), whole contra line must be addressed as a unit, with the guarantee that you will have players with different backgrounds and playing abilities. I always warmed up my line away from the other brass(as do most sections), as the tuba warmup will be different than the lead trumpet; due to their primary responsibility within the ensemble.

For the weaker players, the fundamentals of playing (breathing exercises, mouthpiece buzzing, long tone, lip slurs, etc), is something that is new or perhaps 'skipped' in their current high school band program. Their chops can start pretty weak, but by August, they understand how and why what staff does what we do.

The stronger players, usually are 'ready to go', and after they get it through their heads that 'this new brass tech' knows what he's talking about, they get in line, have good attitudes, and are the strong leaders of the section.

With the whole 'the corps uses these mouthpieces' thing: many corps have deals with a mouthpiece maker to push their product. It's $$$, sadly enough. There was one guy (a non brass player) who used a Bach 24AW for the summer, because it was the easiest for him to sound decent on in the time we had to work with. One on one time is very infrequent with so many members to work with. I think a PT50 works the best on the Yamaha contras (of the 5 different mouthpieces I brought), but most of these members already had their 'preferred corps mouthpiece', so it would be unreasonable to ask the to shell out more $$$ after they already coughed up a couple grand to march this season. Yes, if they all play on the same make of mouthpiece and model of horn they should sound alike; but not al players are the same or have the same capabilities. What is good mouthpiece for 12 out of 14 players will be used, and the other 2 will have to get used to it. It's not a perfect system, but it's seems to work the best, most of the time, for most of the players.

Teaching drum corps is much different than teaching private lessons, in the aspect that the staff is teaching them 10+ hours a day (in sectionals, sub sectionals, or out on the field).

I would say that this activity is where the weaker players have the opportunity to take huge strides and increase as a musician in just a few short months. This season, I had a couple guys (in high school and college) playing tuba for the first time with their primary instrument being something else: jazz guitar, french horn, saxaphone, euphonuim. They really wanted to march, and while at the end of the season they weren't the best players, they made the most progress and I was very proud of them.

Keep in mind that if you march, you won't be able to learn a couple concertos over the summer, but you will be in much better shape and will have made MANY new friends/contacts that you will have for years.

As much as I would like to have a line of tuba performance majors for the summer, they would probably not get as much out of it(musically speaking), as someone who are going the music education route or a non major; and is doing it for FUN and a nice tan. For these individuals, this is one of the better musical experiences they will ever have.

The bottom line, as drum corps member and staff: you have to make due with what you have and adapt quickly to get the most out of each rehearsal. Are things ever going to be perfect? No. However, that doesn't change your attitude and how you teach and motivate your members to give 100% and be proud of themselves. If drum corps was easy, everyone would do it.

[iiipopes]

What kind of "setbacks" to their performance? I was never in a "corps," but I did marching band in highschool, as it was required for the football games and parades, and one year in grad school. We used the same equipment for both marching and concert, of course, the old King fiberglass souzys which were all the school could afford at the time, probably with old King 25 mouthpieces. Even though we did routines and such on the field, our band director was Navy schooled, and tone and intonation were always to the fore. Quite to the contrary of the title of this thread, marching and playing helped my overall playing by helping me learn better how to control breath; it got me in better physical shape (I could leg press more than most of the football team could when the coach took us in for our general physical fitness evaluations, which p.o.ed the football team greatly!) and it taught me to anticipate and prepare for any number of circumstances that can and do affect playing.

If the particular corps helps overall playing, then yes, by all means, enjoy it. But if showmanship or such is pushed at the expense of musicality, then it's time to find a different corps.

[KevinMadden]

I'm not entirely sold on the musical benefits of Corps when the player in question is already performing at a high level. There were quite a few very fine euphonium players at IC who marched in top DCI World class corps, and while they were certainly no worse for it, they did not improve as much as I was expecting them to when I heard them again in September. They still had a ton of fun, came back in pristine physical shape, and had a million and one great stories and memories.

I am a huge proponent of Corps for players at lower levels (High School) this is when I marched. Throughout HS I had more range, more endurance, better ears, better tempo, more volume, more breath support, more patience for practice, and a better concept of the end musical goal that is often so hard for younger players to grasp. All of these areas improved greatly every year I marched. Also, even though my corps horn was in G, my ability to play BBb returned quickly upon returning to school in the fall. I participated in a smaller "Open Class" (then Division 2) group that was not required to buy any special equipment, and only cost $600 a summer in tuition (in 2003-2005) I still have two gold medals, played for thousands of people, and got to travel to some 28 states.

[josh wagner]

I've found drum corps to be a rather nice tool. It makes you think about different styles and like posted here earlier you can learn from some of the top musicians in the country. As far as the mouthpiece goes, they will be okay. They are able to play outside of the long days with their original mouthpiece that is "so important". I've been in two different corps and have never been asked to buy a specific mouthpiece. I know some ask that, but usually they want the best sound you can get to come out of the horn with the closest tuning to the others regardless of the mouthpiece. So if that is your only concern I would look at the benefits: Lung capacity, Flexibility, Range- both dynamic and octave, ability to blend with an ensemble, and also the ability to be secure with their playing. So a few of the many benefits that you will find in being apart of a Drum Corps.

[bbocaner]

If a student is trying to decide what to do with their summer and is trying to decide between drum corps and something like tanglewood/aspen/chautaqua/etc. I don't think there is any question which is going to be more positive for their playing!!

[The Jackson]

If a student is trying to decide what to do with their summer and is trying to decide between drum corps and something like tanglewood/aspen/chautaqua/etc. I don't think there is any question which is going to be more positive for their playing!!

I disagree. While a "big name" professional tuba player and other credits like that would certainly be extremely helpful, I would never make such an absolute statement. A good teacher and good colleagues do not make someone a better player. The improvement comes from within the player. If someone is really passionate about drum corps, loves being a part of one, and puts the work in to be the best player they can be, who is to say that it is an inferior experience than a music festival?

[djwesp]

I am disheartened when I enter a band room during "marching season" and a Dr. Beat is being broadcast (at c. 100 dB) through a Long Ranger.

I am much more disheartened to see Tennessee and Mississippi marching bands that wander around the field, out of pulse, with no sense of time, playing grade II music, with no execution or excellence.

[tubaguy9]

If a student is trying to decide what to do with their summer and is trying to decide between drum corps and something like tanglewood/aspen/chautaqua/etc. I don't think there is any question which is going to be more positive for their playing!!

I disagree. While a "big name" professional tuba player and other credits like that would certainly be extremely helpful, I would never make such an absolute statement. A good teacher and good colleagues do not make someone a better player. The improvement comes from within the player. If someone is really passionate about drum corps, loves being a part of one, and puts the work in to be the best player they can be, who is to say that it is an inferior experience than a music festival?

Agreed. However, I do think that drum corps is a better value for what you get (in terms of food, housing, etc) than a music camp.

[toobagrowl]

Question for the Corps guys:

Why do you have to use those over-the-shoulder contrabasses? Is it for looks and to be 'uniform'? I have always wondered about that. Sousaphones just seem to be a much more comfortable and logical choice for marching & playing. They sound better too.

[djwesp]

EDIT...

Should have left that up there for tooba, but I'll let everyone else respond instead.

[tubaguy9]

Question for the Corps guys:

Why do you have to use those over-the-shoulder contrabasses? Is it for looks and to be 'uniform'? I have always wondered about that. Sousaphones just seem to be a much more comfortable and logical choice for marching & playing. They sound better too.

It has very much to do with tradition. Trust me, Wade could amaze you with his drum corps history...and honestly, your opinion is that sousas are more comfortable and more logical, with a better sound, but I would disagree greatly. Sure, great sousas might sound better but there are very few of those out there, IMO. There is a different sound from the marching tubas than sousaphones, but it's not nessicarily a worse sound. Plus, it is much easier to blat on a sousa than a marching tuba.

[tubainty]

If a student is trying to decide what to do with their summer and is trying to decide between drum corps and something like tanglewood/aspen/chautaqua/etc. I don't think there is any question which is going to be more positive for their playing!!

I disagree. While a "big name" professional tuba player and other credits like that would certainly be extremely helpful, I would never make such an absolute statement. A good teacher and good colleagues do not make someone a better player. The improvement comes from within the player. If someone is really passionate about drum corps, loves being a part of one, and puts the work in to be the best player they can be, who is to say that it is an inferior experience than a music festival?

This post really got me thinking, I'm still un sure of what I want to do musically this summer. I have been to summer festivals but never participated in any kind of quality marching experience. I know people who have been in quality marching groups (school bands and DCI) and they haven't been as good of players as the people that were my colleagues at summer festivals and camps and things. Is this purely coincidental or is there some reason for this? Has anyone on this board been to both a summer camp/festival such as Interlochen, twood, emf, aspen etc. and something like DCI? How do they compare.

It seems, from youtube videos that I've watched and things that I've read, that DCI groups are very good and seem to be a lot of fun but would I advance as a player as much or more doing that this summer or would going to play with orchestras at summer festivals and camps be a better idea (as I have been doing the past several years). Keep in mind that I do intend to be a music performance major once I graduate in 2011.

All advice welcome,
Davis