Mouthpiece Info Request from TNFJ

[bearphonium]

TNFJ:
My marching band director came to me with a question about middle school tuba players, and his surprising plethora of them. He has 4 kids interested, grades 6 and 7. He has a Yamaha 103, a nice silver BBb souzy, a couple of King (I think) brass Eb souzys and two fiberglass BBb King Souzys (one of them is the one listed in my signature line that has to go back home now...)

Tim started this by asking about mouthpieces. He has, currently, some money in the budget for some mouthpieces. He has both a 24AW and 18 Bach mouthpieces, and a couple others that I don't know about. My initial suggestion was for a couple of Kellys, both in the Bach and Kellyburg style to see what the kids sound best on, then investing in a metal mouthpiece. I have no clue what would go best with an Eb souzy, nor what kids that age can handle.

So, how should I guide him?

Ally"knows just enough to be dangerous"House

[Donn]

Regarding the Kelly option, if he would like to have one or two smaller mouthpieces, their 25 is now a discontinued model - so a couple bucks off the already low price, and still appears to be available in most of the colors, but don't buy one to see how it works out, buy as many as you're going to want.

I like the idea of starting with a small mouthpiece and focusing on breath etc., but my pedagogical credentials are nil. On a practical note, I'd think the lighter Kelly mouthpieces would survive much longer, especially in a sousaphone context where there are additional joints that may accidentally fall apart and let the mouthpiece fall to the ground.

[Donn]

... and, from the published dimensions, 25 is a perfectly normal tuba size mouthpiece, on the small side but not too small to get a decent tuba sound going. (The Denis Wick mouthpiece I use on my small Eb is about the same size, as I understand it.) If a Kelly 25 isn't a good mouthpiece for middle school kids learning to play Eb sousaphone, I can't imagine what it would be good for!

[SousaSaver]

Some people like to start their younger students on Helleberg 7. It is ok for beginner students because it is a bit smaller than most mouthpieces.

[Donn]

Some people like to start their younger students on Helleberg 7. It is ok for beginner students because it is a bit smaller than most mouthpieces.

Helleberg 7B. (I've never seen a Conn "7", but some charts show Bach sizes under the Conn name, including a Conn 7 that's the same size as Bach 7. If there is such a thing, it would not be a good choice.) 7B is smaller than some mouthpieces, for sure. Cup diameter is a hair larger than Bach 24AW, for example, according to the David Werden chart I'm looking at. I would call it mid-size, but of course it's relative. The mouthpieces I play most often on Eb, Schilke 62 and 66, feel a hair smaller than the Conn 7B to me, even though their cup diameters are supposed to be about the same per this chart.

[GC]

Should a smaller kid with a smaller face begin on an adult-sized mouthpiece, or should he/she start on something smaller and move up? I've seen it done both ways, but what do the experienced middle/elementary band teachers think?

As for starting kids on Eb Sousaphone, an 18 or full-sized Helleberg might be a bit much for them. There's a whole school of thought that says that higher-pitched tubas are more easily controlled using shallower mouthpieces, like the Helleberg 7B or any of a number of shallow cup mouthpieces. Kanstul's new Eb-F mouthpiece might be a good alternative, though it's pretty bright.

[iiipopes]

Kelly 18 mouthpieces work pretty will with just about anything, are cheap, and are nearly bulletproof.

My 12-year old can get a good buzz on my tubas with a Kelly 18. I own two of them. I agree absolutely: they don't break, they don't break anything else they fall on, they warm to the embouchure, they come in school colors, they have decent tone and intonation.

[toobagrowl]

Kelly 18 mouthpieces work pretty will with just about anything, are cheap, and are nearly bulletproof.

My 12-year old can get a good buzz on my tubas with a Kelly 18. I own two of them. I agree absolutely: they don't break, they don't break anything else they fall on, they warm to the embouchure, they come in school colors, they have decent tone and intonation.

I will be the 3rd one to "Ditto" this. I also own 2 Kelly 18's ("White Wedding" and "Harvest Gold") and use them exclusively. Very light weight, great tone and intonation, not as "tuba sensitive" as many mouthpieces, won't get hot or cold like metal mouthpieces and as Bloke said, nearly bulletproof. They are just good all around mouthpieces

[toobagrowl]

I just read the original post. I think the Kelly 25 or maybe 24AW may be better for the 'youngins. The Kelly 18 and Kellyburg are bigger mouthpieces and require a more developed/stronger embouchure.

[toobagrowl]

^ Well, kids are gonna use whatever the school has to play on. When I first started on tuba in middle school, we had a choice of a Conn 20K souzy, a "Continental Colonial" souzy (Is this a 'student' Conn stencil like "American Standard" or "Cleveland" was for King?), a small King tuba with 3 top pistons, and an even smaller Yamaha tuba, also with 3 top pistons. All were in BBb and most of us youngins preferred the old "Continental Colonial" souzy with the Conn 20K as the second choice. A Conn 20K is big for a typical high schooler and almost huge for any middle schooler. There was an assortment of mouthpieces that we used. But overall I think smaller mouthpieces are better for younger kids to start on and decide later on if they want to go to a bigger mouthpiece or stay on a smaller one. You also have to factor in mouth and lip size. Some pros prefer smaller mouthpieces, some like bigger mouthpieces. When one develops over the years it is up to them to decide. I found that I prefer bowl-cup mouthpieces with a moderate or large diameter, hence the Kelly 18. I can work with a Kelly 24AW on my Eb horns as well. A Bach or Benge 7 is too big for me. The 25 is so small for me though, it almost feels like a large trombone/bass bone mouthpiece as the diameter is so small. But I think it would be fine for someone with a small mouth or for someone who switched over to tuba from trombone or a doubler.