Ensemble tuba

[TYA]

Would anyone here use a 6/4 tuba in a serious Brass Quintet? I saw a video of Gene Pokorny using what I believe is the Yamayork in the Chicago brass quintet and he sounds amazing, but then again when doesn't he sound amazing.

[toobagrowl]

^ I thought he was using THE York in that clip?
Gene is about the only one who I have heard that can use a big 6/4 tuba in quintet without it being too dark or big sounding. Otherwise, the best quintet tuba sounds, IMO, have come from Eb tubas and small/compact CC tubas. I try to get a big deep sound from my antique Holton Eb for quintet and the sound and balance is just right for the group

[TYA]

Is it true that for a while, while running a campaign for Holton instruments Arnold Jacobs used a Holton 345 in his brass quintet?

[toobagrowl]

Is it true that for a while, while running a campaign for Holton instruments Arnold Jacobs used a Holton 345 in his brass quintet?

I think for a short time (a year or two?) he did use a Holton CC when they (Holton) sponsored the CSO brass quintet. Jacobs always preferred his old York though.

[GC]

I've found it interesting that tuba players seem to gravitate toward smaller horns in quintet but many of the other instruments often express a preference that we use larger and darker horns. Your mileage may vary, of course.

[Wyvern]

I mostly use F in quintet, but have used my Neptune a couple times and found it works just fine. At last concert playing the Neptune one musician in the audience commented on how well balanced the quintet sounded.

I personally like to use my F in quintet partly to provide a regular 'work-out' on my bass tuba, but cannot see any reason why a 6/4 cannot be used as long as it is played with sensitively and finesse.

[Rick Denney]

It depends on the musical context. My quintet has some jazz standards where the tuba player is laying down a bass line. These work fine on a softly play Holton, and the Holton has the necessary soul. In that role, the tuba is establishing a completely unique tone color within the ensemble. But a lot of quintet music needs the tuba to blend with the trombone and not establish such a unique tone color within the ensemble. I can't imagine using a Holton to play Gabrieli, for example. It would just be woofy in that context. F tubas can go trombone-like when the musical need is to sound like a bank of high-compression organ trumpets.

Rick "the music should dictate instrument choices" Denney

[TubaTodd]

My professor in college used his 5/4 and 6/4 Yorks in quintet. I've seen some more recent pictures of him with the quintet and he appears to be using a much smaller horn.

[Ken Herrick]

Jacobs always preferred his old York though.

C'mon, this cannot be true. Got a source for this?

From one who was there, YES it is true. He would at times use his adjustable cup mp if he wanted tp produce a lighter or brighter sound.

Yes, for a time he did use a Holton which was the copy of the York. This became his at home practice horn.

He was not alone in using a large BBb or CC tuba for quintet work.

[JHardisk]

My quintet prefers the 6/4 tuba.

A few months back, we went on tour, and ended up on Youtube. This lady followed us around from gig to gig, filming every night.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3Vy0FN_cJo" target="_blank

This is one of the nights at a high school...

[Wyvern]

My quintet prefers the 6/4 tuba.

John, Out of interest do you use the same mouthpiece as when playing with full band, or a shallower cup?

our role in quintet requires us to match trombone

I would question that - in that case playing a cimbasso would be better than tuba

I look at it that with only 5 musicians you want as wide a tonal spectrum as possible to give the music colour. In my view the tuba should be its own distinctive voice and not try to blend too much with trombone which provides a good reason to use a 6/4.

Personally I have no trouble with balance using my 6/4 (no more difficult to play quietly than on F), however, I do agree with point 3 that clarity is easier with a smaller tuba - and it is that which makes the best case for using F or Eb.

On balance probably a large Eb as well demonstrated by Ian on the CBSO quintet thread viewtopic.php?f=2&t=41136& makes the best quintet tuba

[bort]

Not so sure I'll be saying anything different from others so far... but "me too..."

In any group, it's all about blend. You could bring a 6/4 and it'll work fine if you can keep your foot "off the pedal" the whole time to not bury the group. I can't help but think though that for the majority of us mortals, this level of restraint impedes other aspects of playing, like times when you do need to pop out some notes, give a little edge, etc... but without the volume and breadth of tone that a 6/4 would provide. Some people can do this well. A lot of people can't (me included).

In other words, pushing a smaller tuba hard provides a much different timbre than holding back a large tuba and letting a little bit loose. Which is more exciting to listen to?

One of the first cassette tapes I ever owned was the Canadian Brass "High, Bright, Light, and Clear"... certainly to describe the Baroque content of the tape, but in general a good description of what makes a lot of quintet stuff exciting. Some people might be able to pull that off on a 6/4 tuba. But not me (heh, I'm certainly not Chuck D. even on a small tuba!)

[TYA]

This is just for fun but would the travel tuba be a good quintet tuba?

[bort]

This is just for fun but would the travel tuba be a good quintet tuba?

No. I think that's just for fun too.

[TYA]

This is just for fun but would the travel tuba be a good quintet tuba?

No. I think that's just for fun too.

Does that tuba have any use? And just wondering what would be wrong with it in an ensemble?

[finnbogi]

Stockholm Chamber Brass - (I'd like to know)

According to their homepage, Lennart Nord uses a PT-10 F tuba with a Yamaha 66 mouthpiece.

[Wyvern]

This is just for fun but would the travel tuba be a good quintet tuba?

I think it would depend on the ensemble's sound concept - according to Alan Baer it can sound cimbasso like, so might well work?

Another way I've recently been using this horn is as a cimbasso! Although the horn was not designed for this, it has a wonderful sound and fits great! My music director was very skeptical at first, but after hearing it in the section, he loves it! Plan on seeing more of the Trolley tuba in the NYP! quote: Alan Baer on Meinl-Weston website

If I should get one, will try and let you know

[GC]

Back on the original topic, Pokorny also is playing with symphony brass players who are known for strong tone and lots of volume. In his case, a 6/4 is a reasonable match for the rest of the group.

Also, 6/4 tubas are not necessarily woofy. Many or the better horns have plenty of brilliance in their tone and can cut through without dominating. They can have a wide tonal spectrum without being dominated by a tubby bottom. As long as the player can balance and blend, why not use one?

An example of Mr. Jacobs playing in quintet with a 6/4 horn would be on the Portrait of an Artist CD in the Bozza Sonatine for Brass Quintet. I don't see it credited with being one of the big Yorks, but it certainly sounds like it and definitely fits with the sound of the group.

[Rick Denney]

In my view the tuba should be its own distinctive voice and not try to blend too much with trombone which provides a good reason to use a 6/4.

Makes me wonder why quintets have two trumpets if the objective is five distinct voices.

But whether your statement is true entirely depends on the music. Some quintet music is written for a common enough brass quintet instrumentation, which is two trumpets, horn, trombone, and bass trombone. Playing music for bass trombone on a BAT is going to upset someone's intentions! There are other times when the tuba voice really does need to be distinctive.

So, if the music varies that much, and we don't want to take two instruments to a gig, we might select an instrument that can do a lot of things pretty well. I suspect that's the appeal of the small C (or large Eb, or larger F). Hence, Daellenbach's use of the Yamaha 621 (which he is using again and has been for a while), Pilafian's use of the Meinl-Weston Model 37, Fletcher's use of an Eb Besson Sovereign, and so on. A big F can do the job, if it has a good low range. A small F with an oinky low register will be fine for some tunes but not others--same as a BAT.

The rest of the quintet matters, too. Pro orchestra players can probably match a BAT a little easier than community-band amateurs.

Rick "who plays with community-band amateurs, and can bury them with a B&S F" Denney

[k001k47]

I like to pull out the FBAT for quintet stuff.