Monster Mouthpiece

[Tulanetubaboy]

Hi, I am new to these forums so I'm not sure if this is the right place for this but I am looking for a mouthpiece with the best projection. I was leaning toward a MF3B or a LM-12. I want people to when they hear me play. I have the air support to back up the style of playing I do, and I am playing on a Besson sousaphone. It looks really similiar to a Conn though. Any help would be appreciated, Thanks!

[k001k47]

If by monster you mean big, get the Giddings and Webster Bayamo. That thing is huge.

[Lew]

There are many variables that impact the projection that you will get from a particular mouthpiece, and the right combination depends on your playing style, not just the mouthpiece. The rim shape and wide, cup diameter, cup depth, funnel vs. bowl shape, backbore, and even shank diameter, which impacts gap in the receiver can all have an impact. I find a medium diameter, funnel shaped mouthpiece with a larger than average backbore works best for me, specifically the LM-6. If you are considering an MF piece, give Mike a call and talk to him about it. You could try giving Bloke a call too and check out a "blokepiece." I don't have one, but others have said good things about them.

[jamsav]

when you're looking for big , loud you can find it, but usually at the sacrifice of somethink else...I ve got a Mike Finn 3h and a 4h , and when used in conjunction with my King sousy , I get a fuller , rounder and warmer sound with the deeper 3 , brighter and possible more projection with the 4 , My Doug Elliott T cup ( really deep and preferred with my tuba ) doesnt cut it with the sousaphone-
I tried a buddies shallow loud MP ( 5 or 12 ? ) and it was indeed loud , but I didnt like it at all , intonation and articulations where significantly challenged....you gotta kiss a couple of frogs to figure out what will work for you ....js

[toobagrowl]

I have a Monette 94 and an Orfeo Deck 3. Both are large heavy walled mouthpieces that I just don't use anymore. They do give more projection and get more "bark" if ya want, but I also find them to be harder to control/not as agile and they cant get a more bouyant, "beach ball" sound like lighter mouthpieces can when you want.
The Monette is in very good condition (but not perfect) and the Deck 3 is in fair/OK condition. PM if interested.

[Roger Lewis]

I feel that there is a difference between "loud" and "projection". It can be loud where you are on the stage and still not reach the cheap seats if the sound is really dark and gets absorbed into the sound of the bass section. The orchestra I play in has a fantastic and strong brass section. I'm constantly amazed at the quality of sound my coworkers produce. I use my Yorkbrunner with this ensemble and had an "aha!' moment this summer.

For one concert I switched from my usual PT88 to the Stofer Geib. Both are great mouthpieces but they have completely different reactions.

I have never gotten "the hand" from the conductor when using the PT88 on that horn. When I switched to the Stofer Geib, it still had a great sound, but I was getting the hand a lot in rehearsal and basically had to pull back a lot for the concert.

The Stofer Geib has a "cleaner" and "clearer" sound that brings out more high frequency overtones and has more presence because the sound tends to sit in the middle of everyone's overtones. It doesn't blend but it gets in the way of the middle instruments. The PT88 blends better, has more low frequencies in the sound and makes the sound sit below all the other instruments so they stand clear without working too hard.

These are just my observations.

Roger

[Tulanetubaboy]

Interesting, Lew could you go into detail on how these different factors of the mouthpiece affect projection? And thanks but I'll pass on the mouthpiece offers. Maybe this will help on what type of playing I will be doing. Ignore the second sousaphone section. I am looking for a mouthpiece that will help with getting a nice round tone that will project without too much edge sort of like the first section.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Ub_oH85Ay4" target="_blank

[toobagrowl]

Maybe this will help on what type of playing I will be doing. Ignore the second sousaphone section. I am looking for a mouthpiece that will help with getting a nice round tone that will project without too much edge sort of like the first section.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Ub_oH85Ay4" target="_blank" target="_blank

You call this getting a nice round sound that projects without too much edge? I'd call that a huge blattfest instead. If you are going to play like that it doesn't matter what you play on....just blatt it out as loud as you can. I have seen several of these clips and it's kinda sad how this ultra-nasty-blatty sound is spreading all over US high school and college souzy sections.

[oedipoes]

Interesting, Lew could you go into detail on how these different factors of the mouthpiece affect projection? And thanks but I'll pass on the mouthpiece offers. Maybe this will help on what type of playing I will be doing. Ignore the second sousaphone section. I am looking for a mouthpiece that will help with getting a nice round tone that will project without too much edge sort of like the first section.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Ub_oH85Ay4" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank

If that is your ideal tuba / sousa - sound, go for it...
It's a cultural difference probably, but I zapped away after 10 seconds.
I expected to hear some powerful tuba sound, and I do my share of honkin' myself, but I would describe that as 'white noise'...
I personally think JP Sousa did not have this in mind, when ordering those first sousaphones...

But beauty is in the eye of the beholder, so don't take me serious!
It's my very personal opinion.

[Roger Lewis]

If you want lots of edge and lots of loud get one of these (not pretty inn any way, but very effective):

Marcinkiewicz N6W Tuba Mouthpiece wwbw item number 583819 American shank.

If you want a beautiful dark sound that has great body to it, go with the PT88.

Just my recommendastions.

Roger

[Tulanetubaboy]

Maybe this will help on what type of playing I will be doing. Ignore the second sousaphone section. I am looking for a mouthpiece that will help with getting a nice round tone that will project without too much edge sort of like the first section.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Ub_oH85Ay4" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank

You call this getting a nice round sound that projects without too much edge? I'd call that a huge blattfest instead. If you are going to play like that it doesn't matter what you play on....just blatt it out as loud as you can. I have seen several of these clips and it's kinda sad how this ultra-nasty-blatty sound is spreading all over US high school and college souzy sections.

The second sousa section was ultra nasty and blatty, but the first tuba section was more of the sound I am trying to get at. Believe me, its a lot worst at some other schools. I believe the first sousa section does this type of playing the best. I would disagree with you on blatting as loud as you can. Maybe the second section was doing it, but the first section had control with what they were doing. Thanks for your feedback though!

[tubainty]

Maybe this will help on what type of playing I will be doing. Ignore the second sousaphone section. I am looking for a mouthpiece that will help with getting a nice round tone that will project without too much edge sort of like the first section.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Ub_oH85Ay4" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank

You call this getting a nice round sound that projects without too much edge? I'd call that a huge blattfest instead. If you are going to play like that it doesn't matter what you play on....just blatt it out as loud as you can. I have seen several of these clips and it's kinda sad how this ultra-nasty-blatty sound is spreading all over US high school and college souzy sections.

The second sousa section was ultra nasty and blatty, but the first tuba section was more of the sound I am trying to get at. Believe me, its a lot worst at some other schools. I believe the first sousa section does this type of playing the best. I would disagree with you on blatting as loud as you can. Maybe the second section was doing it, but the first section had control with what they were doing. Thanks for your feedback though!

I'm sorry but nothing in that video sounded controlled in the slightest to me. It all sounded blatty and unfocused. That is a sound I would NEVER want to make... But as was said earlier it is all a matter of test, do what sounds good to you.

[Tulanetubaboy]

If you want lots of edge and lots of loud get one of these (not pretty inn any way, but very effective):

Marcinkiewicz N6W Tuba Mouthpiece wwbw item number 583819 American shank.

If you want a beautiful dark sound that has great body to it, go with the PT88.

Just my recommendastions.

Roger

Thanks, I might check out the PT-88. The Marcinkiewicz sounds like the preferred mouthpiece for the second sousa section.

[Tulanetubaboy]

Interesting, Lew could you go into detail on how these different factors of the mouthpiece affect projection? And thanks but I'll pass on the mouthpiece offers. Maybe this will help on what type of playing I will be doing. Ignore the second sousaphone section. I am looking for a mouthpiece that will help with getting a nice round tone that will project without too much edge sort of like the first section.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Ub_oH85Ay4" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank

If that is your ideal tuba / sousa - sound, go for it...
It's a cultural difference probably, but I zapped away after 10 seconds.
I expected to hear some powerful tuba sound, and I do my share of honkin' myself, but I would describe that as 'white noise'...
I personally think JP Sousa did not have this in mind, when ordering those first sousaphones...

But beauty is in the eye of the beholder, so don't take me serious!
It's my very personal opinion.

Thanks for the feedback! I am well aware that this type of playing is mostly looked down upon, but to me there is nothing like listening to the wall of stand shaking sound that sousa sections like these make.

[Tulanetubaboy]

You call this getting a nice round sound that projects without too much edge? I'd call that a huge blattfest instead. If you are going to play like that it doesn't matter what you play on....just blatt it out as loud as you can. I have seen several of these clips and it's kinda sad how this ultra-nasty-blatty sound is spreading all over US high school and college souzy sections. [/quote]
The second sousa section was ultra nasty and blatty, but the first tuba section was more of the sound I am trying to get at. Believe me, its a lot worst at some other schools. I believe the first sousa section does this type of playing the best. I would disagree with you on blatting as loud as you can. Maybe the second section was doing it, but the first section had control with what they were doing. Thanks for your feedback though![/quote]

I'm sorry but nothing in that video sounded controlled in the slightest to me. It all sounded blatty and unfocused. That is a sound I would NEVER want to make... But as was said earlier it is all a matter of test, do what sounds good to you.[/quote]
Thanks, its always interesting to see how people feel about this style of playing. Maybe comparing them to this section will enlighten things a bit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDrpQERM ... r_embedded" target="_blank" target="_blank

This section is a good example of uncontrolled blatting. Compare them to the first section in my previous vid and I think you might see what I'm talking about

[tubainty]

You call this getting a nice round sound that projects without too much edge? I'd call that a huge blattfest instead. If you are going to play like that it doesn't matter what you play on....just blatt it out as loud as you can. I have seen several of these clips and it's kinda sad how this ultra-nasty-blatty sound is spreading all over US high school and college souzy sections.

The second sousa section was ultra nasty and blatty, but the first tuba section was more of the sound I am trying to get at. Believe me, its a lot worst at some other schools. I believe the first sousa section does this type of playing the best. I would disagree with you on blatting as loud as you can. Maybe the second section was doing it, but the first section had control with what they were doing. Thanks for your feedback though![/quote]

I'm sorry but nothing in that video sounded controlled in the slightest to me. It all sounded blatty and unfocused. That is a sound I would NEVER want to make... But as was said earlier it is all a matter of test, do what sounds good to you.[/quote]
Thanks, its always interesting to see how people feel about this style of playing. Maybe comparing them to this section will enlighten things a bit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDrpQERM ... r_embedded" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank

This section is a good example of uncontrolled blatting. Compare them to the first section in my previous vid and I think you might see what I'm talking about [/quote]

That one was worse, but the first one was still pretty bad, in my opinion... It all sounds sloppy out of tune and with no sensivity.. It just sounds to narrow and edgy for my taste, doesn't seem like good music.

[TUbajohn20J]

I tried to keep quiet as long as I could. Yeah I'm a college tuba player and yes that style of "blatting" or "cranking" is what the younger folks these days think sousaphone is all about, especially at the HBCU's. It's not all about that, especially while playing full band songs you don't want to blast nasty out of tune notes and cover up the band. BUT, these students (myself included) know the difference between a concert band tuba sound, and a blasting sousaphone sound. They know when to back off. Of course they don't play like this during concert band season. Only on the field, stand tunes, or during tuba fanfares. Yes my sousaphone section plays that loud during marching band. Fans love it and its exciting. But during wind ensemble we play the complete opposite, but still with a huge, full big bass tuba sound when need be. Yes many people frown upon the blasting sousaphone sound but it did start with HBCU's and now its even spreading to D1 schools.

Now as far as mouthpieces:
For sousaphone, I use a standard Helleburg. It's a fairly large mouthpiece with a deep cup. It gives me a huge sound but I can also get a bright sound when needed. (many people are using those Loud LM-12 shallow mouthpieces to get the loudest possible sound from..but i can't stand those. Now if you can get that HUGE sound from a deeper cup mouthpiece, then you are really doing something. Plus your tone will be better)

For concert tuba, I use a PT-48. Massive width, deep cup mouthpiece to really fill up the concert hall. No edge whatsoever, just the huge bass sound that you would expect from a 6/4 tuba.

Again. These are 2 different styles of playing. On a sousaphone you don't want that huge, dark sounding tone that you would see in a symphony..but a slightly brighter sound, still with good tone of course. And for concert tuba, you WANT that huge, deep symphony sound.

[k001k47]

If you want to blat your chops out, you'd better do it in tune with a decent tone: the way they do in DCI. (sometimes)

I'm glad I was exposed to competitive Texas marching while I was in high school. UIL state finals in a jam packed Alamodome is just unreal. I don't think I'll ever feel an adrenaline rush like that again. A lot more fun than insensitive stand blatting and show tunes on the field.

[Tulanetubaboy]

I tried to keep quiet as long as I could. Yeah I'm a college tuba player and yes that style of "blatting" or "cranking" is what the younger folks these days think sousaphone is all about, especially at the HBCU's. It's not all about that, especially while playing full band songs you don't want to blast nasty out of tune notes and cover up the band. BUT, these students (myself included) know the difference between a concert band tuba sound, and a blasting sousaphone sound. They know when to back off. Of course they don't play like this during concert band season. Only on the field, stand tunes, or during tuba fanfares. Yes my sousaphone section plays that loud during marching band. Fans love it and its exciting. But during wind ensemble we play the complete opposite, but still with a huge, full big bass tuba sound when need be. Yes many people frown upon the blasting sousaphone sound but it did start with HBCU's and now its even spreading to D1 schools.

Now as far as mouthpieces:
For sousaphone, I use a standard Helleburg. It's a fairly large mouthpiece with a deep cup. It gives me a huge sound but I can also get a bright sound when needed. (many people are using those Loud LM-12 shallow mouthpieces to get the loudest possible sound from..but i can't stand those. Now if you can get that HUGE sound from a deeper cup mouthpiece, then you are really doing something. Plus your tone will be better)

For concert tuba, I use a PT-48. Massive width, deep cup mouthpiece to really fill up the concert hall. No edge whatsoever, just the huge bass sound that you would expect from a 6/4 tuba.

Again. These are 2 different styles of playing. On a sousaphone you don't want that huge, dark sounding tone that you would see in a symphony..but a slightly brighter sound, still with good tone of course. And for concert tuba, you WANT that huge, deep symphony sound.

Hah, no need to keep quiet. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. PT-48 for concert band? I'll have to look into that, but I find that I can play on any mouthpiece just fine for concert band. I currently play on a Helleberg at the moment and I feel choked. Would you suggest a bigger rim or cup size? And thank you for bringing up the elephant in the room lol, but atleast you know that aside from cranking or "blatting"...we are musicians just like anyone else. They say people do not adapt well to change. To me, the sound I am trying to achieve is just a different form of playing. In my opinion, there is no definition of what music is. Music is what you make it out to be, whether you prefer the concert band setting, or the football games is personal taste. People are quick to criticize this style of playing but to me it is just another form of music. Besides "blatting" random notes, has any one who criticizes this type of playing even tried playing like some of these sections. Its not as easy as just playing as loud as you can. It takes some strong chops to do what they do.

Went off into a tangent but back on topic. From what I hear about the LM-12 it is indeed loud, but has way too much edge to it. There was a sousaphone section who had every player on their line with LM-12. They were loud, but sounded too "blatty" even for me (imagine that). So I guess its out of a Mike Finn or a PT-88.

[TexTuba]

Hah, no need to keep quiet. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. PT-48 for concert band? I'll have to look into that, but I find that I can play on any mouthpiece just fine for concert band. I currently play on a Helleberg at the moment and I feel choked. Would you suggest a bigger rim or cup size? And thank you for bringing up the elephant in the room lol, but atleast you know that aside from cranking or "blatting"...we are musicians just like anyone else. They say people do not adapt well to change. To me, the sound I am trying to achieve is just a different form of playing. In my opinion, there is no definition of what music is. Music is what you make it out to be, whether you prefer the concert band setting, or the football games is personal taste. People are quick to criticize this style of playing but to me it is just another form of music. Besides "blatting" random notes, has any one who criticizes this type of playing even tried playing like some of these sections. Its not as easy as just playing as loud as you can. It takes some strong chops to do what they do.

Went off into a tangent but back on topic. From what I hear about the LM-12 it is indeed loud, but has way too much edge to it. There was a sousaphone section who had every player on their line with LM-12. They were loud, but sounded too "blatty" even for me (imagine that). So I guess its out of a Mike Finn or a PT-88.

I used to have an LM-3. It was quite large and I could really "crank" without it sounding blatty. It sounds like you have narrowed it down to two, but I just wanted to throw that one out there. As far as this whole "not music" tangent:

While my wife and I were in New Orleans, there were some college-aged brass players playing on Bourbon St. These guys were damn impressive. They could take their horns to the limits of volume and just NAIL all sorts of high notes that were in these charts they were playing...by memory. That sousaphone player was nailing G's above middle C to the wall. What was great, as well, was the crowd that gathered to hear these guys play...had to be about 100 people. My point is that, to me, it was dirty. It was loud. It was great.