Monster Mouthpiece

[Tulanetubaboy]

I tried to keep quiet as long as I could. Yeah I'm a college tuba player and yes that style of "blatting" or "cranking" is what the younger folks these days think sousaphone is all about, especially at the HBCU's. It's not all about that, especially while playing full band songs you don't want to blast nasty out of tune notes and cover up the band. BUT, these students (myself included) know the difference between a concert band tuba sound, and a blasting sousaphone sound. They know when to back off. Of course they don't play like this during concert band season. Only on the field, stand tunes, or during tuba fanfares. Yes my sousaphone section plays that loud during marching band. Fans love it and its exciting. But during wind ensemble we play the complete opposite, but still with a huge, full big bass tuba sound when need be. Yes many people frown upon the blasting sousaphone sound but it did start with HBCU's and now its even spreading to D1 schools.

Now as far as mouthpieces:
For sousaphone, I use a standard Helleburg. It's a fairly large mouthpiece with a deep cup. It gives me a huge sound but I can also get a bright sound when needed. (many people are using those Loud LM-12 shallow mouthpieces to get the loudest possible sound from..but i can't stand those. Now if you can get that HUGE sound from a deeper cup mouthpiece, then you are really doing something. Plus your tone will be better)

For concert tuba, I use a PT-48. Massive width, deep cup mouthpiece to really fill up the concert hall. No edge whatsoever, just the huge bass sound that you would expect from a 6/4 tuba.

Again. These are 2 different styles of playing. On a sousaphone you don't want that huge, dark sounding tone that you would see in a symphony..but a slightly brighter sound, still with good tone of course. And for concert tuba, you WANT that huge, deep symphony sound.

Hah, no need to keep quiet. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. PT-48 for concert band? I'll have to look into that, but I find that I can play on any mouthpiece just fine for concert band. I currently play on a Helleberg at the moment and I feel choked. Would you suggest a bigger rim or cup size? And thank you for bringing up the elephant in the room lol, but atleast you know that aside from cranking or "blatting"...we are musicians just like anyone else. They say people do not adapt well to change. To me, the sound I am trying to achieve is just a different form of playing. In my opinion, there is no definition of what music is. Music is what you make it out to be, whether you prefer the concert band setting, or the football games is personal taste. People are quick to criticize this style of playing but to me it is just another form of music. Besides "blatting" random notes, has any one who criticizes this type of playing even tried playing like some of these sections. Its not as easy as just playing as loud as you can. It takes some strong chops to do what they do.

Went off into a tangent but back on topic. From what I hear about the LM-12 it is indeed loud, but has way too much edge to it. There was a sousaphone section who had every player on their line with LM-12. They were loud, but sounded too "blatty" even for me (imagine that). So I guess its out of a Mike Finn or a PT-88.

[TexTuba]

Hah, no need to keep quiet. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. PT-48 for concert band? I'll have to look into that, but I find that I can play on any mouthpiece just fine for concert band. I currently play on a Helleberg at the moment and I feel choked. Would you suggest a bigger rim or cup size? And thank you for bringing up the elephant in the room lol, but atleast you know that aside from cranking or "blatting"...we are musicians just like anyone else. They say people do not adapt well to change. To me, the sound I am trying to achieve is just a different form of playing. In my opinion, there is no definition of what music is. Music is what you make it out to be, whether you prefer the concert band setting, or the football games is personal taste. People are quick to criticize this style of playing but to me it is just another form of music. Besides "blatting" random notes, has any one who criticizes this type of playing even tried playing like some of these sections. Its not as easy as just playing as loud as you can. It takes some strong chops to do what they do.

Went off into a tangent but back on topic. From what I hear about the LM-12 it is indeed loud, but has way too much edge to it. There was a sousaphone section who had every player on their line with LM-12. They were loud, but sounded too "blatty" even for me (imagine that). So I guess its out of a Mike Finn or a PT-88.

I used to have an LM-3. It was quite large and I could really "crank" without it sounding blatty. It sounds like you have narrowed it down to two, but I just wanted to throw that one out there. As far as this whole "not music" tangent:

While my wife and I were in New Orleans, there were some college-aged brass players playing on Bourbon St. These guys were damn impressive. They could take their horns to the limits of volume and just NAIL all sorts of high notes that were in these charts they were playing...by memory. That sousaphone player was nailing G's above middle C to the wall. What was great, as well, was the crowd that gathered to hear these guys play...had to be about 100 people. My point is that, to me, it was dirty. It was loud. It was great.

[Tulanetubaboy]

Hah, no need to keep quiet. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. PT-48 for concert band? I'll have to look into that, but I find that I can play on any mouthpiece just fine for concert band. I currently play on a Helleberg at the moment and I feel choked. Would you suggest a bigger rim or cup size? And thank you for bringing up the elephant in the room lol, but atleast you know that aside from cranking or "blatting"...we are musicians just like anyone else. They say people do not adapt well to change. To me, the sound I am trying to achieve is just a different form of playing. In my opinion, there is no definition of what music is. Music is what you make it out to be, whether you prefer the concert band setting, or the football games is personal taste. People are quick to criticize this style of playing but to me it is just another form of music. Besides "blatting" random notes, has any one who criticizes this type of playing even tried playing like some of these sections. Its not as easy as just playing as loud as you can. It takes some strong chops to do what they do.

Went off into a tangent but back on topic. From what I hear about the LM-12 it is indeed loud, but has way too much edge to it. There was a sousaphone section who had every player on their line with LM-12. They were loud, but sounded too "blatty" even for me (imagine that). So I guess its out of a Mike Finn or a PT-88.

I used to have an LM-3. It was quite large and I could really "crank" without it sounding blatty. It sounds like you have narrowed it down to two, but I just wanted to throw that one out there. As far as this whole "not music" tangent:

While my wife and I were in New Orleans, there were some college-aged brass players playing on Bourbon St. These guys were damn impressive. They could take their horns to the limits of volume and just NAIL all sorts of high notes that were in these charts they were playing...by memory. That sousaphone player was nailing G's above middle C to the wall. What was great, as well, was the crowd that gathered to hear these guys play...had to be about 100 people. My point is that, to me, it was dirty. It was loud. It was great.

Awesome, I am from New Orleans so I know what your talking about. The brass bands are a sight to see! How would you compare a LM-12 to a LM-3? The LM-12 is definitely loud but like I said earlier, it was just TOO much blatt. While I have narrowed my mouthpiece choices down, I am still looking for suggestions. I know I won't find the perfect fit the first time, but I just need some mouthpiece names and what kind of experience people have had with them in terms of projection.

[TexTuba]

Awesome, I am from New Orleans so I know what your talking about. The brass bands are a sight to see! How would you compare a LM-12 to a LM-3? The LM-12 is definitely loud but like I said earlier, it was just TOO much blatt. While I have narrowed my mouthpiece choices down, I am still looking for suggestions. I know I won't find the perfect fit the first time, but I just need some mouthpiece names and what kind of experience people have had with them in terms of projection.

I have never played an LM-12, but the LM-3 was the largest, deepest mouthpiece they carry. It is just large in every aspect. It was a very dark, round sound that I couldn't get any "edge" on a horn when that piece was plugged in. I used to also have an LM-5 for a while that is not quite as large as the LM-3. Basically, if you want a BIG mouthpiece, you can't go wrong with either of those two or a G&W Bayamo. FWIW.

[k001k47]

Besides "blatting" random notes, has any one who criticizes this type of playing even tried playing like some of these sections. Its not as easy as just playing as loud as you can. It takes some strong chops to do what they do.

To contribute to the side discussion:
In pep band and football game settings I would play as loud as I possibly could sometimes: it was very fun . It doesn't take strong chops to "blat". Playing at similar volumes without the timbre distorting, however, takes quite strong "chops". Remember, a secure timber with close enough intonation in large quantities feels much louder than abunch of players letting their lips go and playing with ignorant ears.

Try an Helleburg 7B.

[TUbajohn20J]

You should try the Loud LM-7 or the LM-5. Both are big mouthpieces that won't give you that nasty sound like the LM-12 gives. The LM-12 is the shallowest tuba mouthpiece I have ever seen. I really consider that mouthpiece a joke. The sound it produces is so uncharacteristic to the tuba its riduculous. But a lot of the DCI contra lines are using the LM-7's and LM-5's. Excellent choices. The LM-3, in my opinion, is too big for sousaphone. I would consider it to be an orchestral mouthpiece or one that you would use to get that massive, no edge at all, deep tuba sound in a large symphonic band. I would imagine it would be too dark for sousaphone..especially for "crankin". I'll stick to my helleburg. It can really crank out the lows and highs for me. You might look into the Loud LM-7, or a Perantucci PT-42. Those are big mouthpieces..but not too big, and would be perfect for your style of playing I think. I also use a PT-42 sometimes along with my Helleburg for sousaphone and I love it.

[Tulanetubaboy]

Besides "blatting" random notes, has any one who criticizes this type of playing even tried playing like some of these sections. Its not as easy as just playing as loud as you can. It takes some strong chops to do what they do.

To contribute to the side discussion:
In pep band and football game settings I would play as loud as I possibly could sometimes: it was very fun . It doesn't take strong chops to "blat". Playing at similar volumes without the timber distorting, however, takes quite strong "chops". Remember, a secure timber with close enough intonation in large quantities feels much louder than abunch of players letting their lips go and playing with ignorant ears.

Try an Helleburg 7B.

I forgot my mouthpiece one day for pep band and a friend let me use his 7B, it was too small for me. From what I read I would say that it would take more wind power than chops to play as loud as blatting without the blat, but I'm probably wrong.

[Tulanetubaboy]

You should try the Loud LM-7 or the LM-5. Both are big mouthpieces that won't give you that nasty sound like the LM-12 gives. The LM-12 is the shallowest tuba mouthpiece I have ever seen. I really consider that mouthpiece a joke. The sound it produces is so uncharacteristic to the tuba its riduculous. But a lot of the DCI contra lines are using the LM-7's and LM-5's. Excellent choices. The LM-3, in my opinion, is too big for sousaphone. I would consider it to be an orchestral mouthpiece or one that you would use to get that massive, no edge at all, deep tuba sound in a large symphonic band. I would imagine it would be too dark for sousaphone..especially for "crankin". I'll stick to my helleburg. It can really crank out the lows and highs for me. You might look into the Loud LM-7, or a Perantucci PT-42. Those are big mouthpieces..but not too big, and would be perfect for your style of playing I think. I also use a PT-42 sometimes along with my Helleburg for sousaphone and I love it.

Thanks man, this is the type of response I was looking for!

[Donn]

The Marcinkiewicz H4 is a little like a wider 7B - more or less funnel shaped (though not as much as the 7B), and shallower but wider, with a bigger throat. It's what I use to get a colorful sound on the sousaphone without a harsh ringing edge.

[k001k47]

I forgot my mouthpiece one day for pep band and a friend let me use his 7B, it was too small for me. From what I read I would say that it would take more wind power than chops to play as loud as blatting without the blat, but I'm probably wrong.

It's actually a combination of the two. A lot of the time when playing loud, we just can't control the amount of volume we're trying to put out (either due to face muscles, air related issues, or a combination of the two): we lose control of our buzz. There's a reason pros can push huge full sounds out of horns while average joes like us feel we're "maxing out", but taht's another subject altogether.
The embochure used to create a tuba buzz -which is the tuba sound- works sort of the way our vocal chords work. Think of a blastissimo 'blatty' timbre as the voice used to sing in a heavy rock fashion. On the other side, is the orchestral 'deep' timbre - which can be likened to an opera singer. The sound I'd like to make on a marching field, in the stands, at a pep show etc. would be somewhere in between: a good in your face b**ls to the walls brassy sound. Now, a lot of show bands prefer the heavily distorted timber, and that's fine for them. I actually like the way some of them pull it off.

The 7b wasn't a serious suggestion. I was just messing around.
Based on what you want to use it for, I'd suggest a variation of what you already have(the helleburg) , but one of the variations mouthpiece craftsmen make with a slightly bored out backbore , or throrat. The reason I suggest this is because the helleburg is a good middle of the road mouthpiece that works good with the playing you're doing, and you're probably comfortable with the rim. Switching rim sizes can wreak havok on your playing because it throws off the way your embochure sets, and takes quite a bit of face time to get used to.

So, a helleburg style mouthpiece rim with a little bigger throat and cup depth, you'll keep the feel and open up the sound a bit without losing too much bite. A huge mouthpiece won't work out to well with most sousaphone playing. If you want to experiment with different rims, go for it! You may find that something else fits your face a lot better.
Above all, keep on playing that tuba!

[TUbajohn20J]

Very well said

[Tulanetubaboy]

I forgot my mouthpiece one day for pep band and a friend let me use his 7B, it was too small for me. From what I read I would say that it would take more wind power than chops to play as loud as blatting without the blat, but I'm probably wrong.

It's actually a combination of the two. A lot of the time when playing loud, we just can't control the amount of volume we're trying to put out (either due to face muscles, air related issues, or a combination of the two): we lose control of our buzz. There's a reason pros can push huge full sounds out of horns while average joes like us feel we're "maxing out", but taht's another subject altogether.
The embochure used to create a tuba buzz -which is the tuba sound- works sort of the way our vocal chords work. Think of a blastissimo 'blatty' timber as the voice used to sing in a heavy rock fashion. On the other side, is the orchestral 'deep' timber - which can be likened to an opera singer. The sound I'd like to make on a marching field, in the stands, at a pep show etc. would be somewhere in between: a good in your face b**ls to the walls brassy sound. Now, a lot of show bands prefer the heavily distorted timber, and that's fine for them. I actually like the way some of them pull it off.

The 7b wasn't a serious suggestion. I was just messing around.
Based on what you want to use it for, I'd suggest a variation of what you already have(the helleburg) , but one of the variations mouthpiece craftsmen make with a slightly bored out backbore , or throrat. The reason I suggest this is because the helleburg is a good middle of the road mouthpiece that works good with the playing you're doing, and you're probably comfortable with the rim. Switching rim sizes can wreak havok on your playing because it throws off the way your embochure sets, and takes quite a bit of face time to get used to.

So, a helleburg style mouthpiece rim with a little bigger throat and cup depth, you'll keep the feel and open up the sound a bit without losing too much bite. A huge mouthpiece won't work out to well with most sousaphone playing. If you want to experiment with different rims, go for it! You may find that something else fits your face a lot better.
Above all, keep on playing that tuba!

Very helpful, would you know of any mouthpieces liek the one you described or would I have to get it custom made?

[k001k47]

Very helpful, would you know of any mouthpieces liek the one you described or would I have to get it custom made?

There's Giddings and Webster Willwaw and Diablo. A lot of people tend to like the Diablo more. There's also the MF3H. Bloke offers his moutpieces with interchangeable rims; one of them is the helleburg rim (might go good with the solo#1 for what you want) Many mouthpiece makers offer their version of the helleburg that may or may not be modified. Just try to find something simillar to the helleburg rimwith a medium funnel cup and a little larger backbore. Different rims will won't wreak havok on your playing (it was an exaggeration) but it will feel weird for a while, especially if the change is drastic. The best thing for you to do is to test out mouthpieces you like - which can be pretty hard in some places.