Question about "Eb basses"

[The Jackson]

Howdy e'erbody,

I had an audition today and one of the things asked for was a prepared etude. The etude was provided for us, and it was copied from an older etudes book.

At the beginning of the etude, it says "Eb bass only". I talked to a band director friend of mine and he said that he had his tuba player doing the same audition transpose the entire etude down a major third because the "Eb" in "Eb bass" meant it was a transposing instrument.

When I got the piece, I just thought it was meant for an Eb tuba, but this got me wondering. The key signature is D major and the first note is F#. When transposed down a third, things do make a bit more sense. Perhaps it said "Eb bass only" because it was a transposed part?

Either way it was played, the audition judge did not make any comment.

So, what's the deal on this?

Thanks in advance!

[The Jackson]

Nope, it was in bass clef.

[The Jackson]

Yes, it was in the pretty mid-high register.

Thank you!

[KevinMadden]

Yeah, this sounds like something form the Rubank books, NH all-state had similar etudes, with a marking "disregard all references,'Eb or BBb only'"

[iiipopes]

What KevinMadden said. I have the Rubank book, and occasionally throughout the book there are "Eb only" exercises that do not go below A nat below the staff, but go to the top of the bass clef. Conversely, there are also occasionally throughout the book exercises marked "BBb only" which do descend to low F or E nat, but don't really go above 4th line F, possibly top space G.

It's just a tonal philosophy from a different generation about the range of instruments (especially when standard band tubas only had three valves).

[Bill Troiano]

Definitely what Kevin and iiipopes said.

[Steve Marcus]

...

[Dan Schultz]

I see the "Eb" and "BBb" every once in a while. Especially on older compositions where there actually were two parts for the two instruments written not necessarily in octaves but at least in a way that put the parts in a more 'comfortable' range... and to provide some additional harmonics in the bass section. As long as the parts are written in bass clef, it doesn't matter.

If the parts are written in treble clef.... then they will be transposed for the two instruments.

[imperialbari]

[lowpitchmoravian]

I play in the Salem Concert Band in Winston-Salem,nc (band started in1771) and some of the "yellowed" music has "Bombardon" or"ophicleide" written at the top. Had't seen Serpent yet.

[sloan]

So...show us the BBb Bass part.

[imperialbari]

So...show us the BBb Bass part.

Nobody in the know would ask anybody showing them a BBb part for this set of parts:

http://lcweb2.loc.gov/diglib/ihas/loc.n ... n=ALLPARTS

or

http://lcweb2.loc.gov/diglib/ihas/loc.n ... 028200.pdf

The key to the answer is on this page:

http://lcweb2.loc.gov/diglib/ihas/loc.n ... /full.html

[Donn]

Nobody in the know would ask anybody showing them a BBb part for this set of parts:

How about a Bb part?



Scored for baritone horn, maybe - but not written for one? It looks more like a tuba part.

[sloan]

Nobody in the know would ask anybody showing them a BBb part for this set of parts:

How about a Bb part?



Scored for baritone horn, maybe - but not written for one? It looks more like a tuba part.

Looks like an Eb tuba part!

[Donn]

Looks like an Eb tuba part!

Not a very good one, but sure, if it's scored for Bb bass, to be played as written, then the Eb tuba could fill in, and the BBb tuba could play the Eb part.

[iiipopes]

If you follow the links, you will note there is no separate "euph" or "bari" part. There is only Bb bass treble clef and Bb bass bass clef. In other words, the euph plays this part. The Eb tuba is as written. Since the part is concert pitch, you can have a BBb player play as written or drop selected passages an octave, keeping the voice leading in mind so it doesn't sound like it jumps all over the place.

[GC]

This looks as if it follows the pattern of Civil War brass band music. Usually the brass were Saxhorns. There were often Bb tenor, baritone, and bass parts, and they were all played on horns of the same pitch but with different bore and bell sizes. Eb bass was the lowest part written. The Bb bass part doubled it an octave above most of the time. The treble end was handled by Eb and Bb sopranos (usually cornets) and Eb alto horns. Occasionally a Db piccolo and/or a clarinet (in varying keys) would be used.

This was a common way to score music until the early 20th century. A fair amount of music in the Library of Congress collection up to about 1910 us scored this way.

[Wyvern]

In the early days of brass bands the euphonium part was often labelled 'Bb Bass' - before BBb contrabass tubas became generally established within bands.

Incidentally, I was interested a few years back playing a very early brass band piece (if I remember correct out of the Black Dyke Band library) to see the Eb bass part in bass clef. I wonder at what stage they changed to treble clef?

Regarding transposing bass clef parts - French and Belgium bands do use - very confusing!

[imperialbari]

GC tells the historical development in American band scoring. I presented the lowest part from an 1882 Sousa edition to display that the Eb bass wasn’t just used in American bands because of easy reading for players transferred from trumpet or from treble clef reading baritone. It was the traditional contrabass supplemented by a bass line played on an instrument in the trombone-baritone-euphonium range.

Very soon after after 1882 Sousa (or the edition company) named the tuba part Basses. Actually there is an overlap period of inconsequence on this matter.

From 1879, where the part is still playable on a 3 valve Eb instrument:



And from 1886, where the part takes at least four valves for an Eb instrument to play the lower line in the divisi passages, as the two steps 3rd valve wasn’t common in the US:



There were BBb basses known back around 1860, but I seem to remember the oldest Conn BBb tubas being from around 1885. The bug and Lew are better in their knowledge on that matter than I am.

The four parts for instruments pitched in tenor-baritone Bb were Tenors 1 & 2, Bass, and Baritone. All four parts in general came in treble clef as well as in bass clef notations. The Baritone part stays for that instrument through Sousa’s lifetime (and further on of course), whereas the Bb Tenor and Bb Bass parts overtime and with some double indications develop into trombone parts all in bass clef.

Regarding Jonathan’s British brass band observations, they are true about the Bb bass part being intended for, what Geoffrey Brand named a glorified euphonium. That part was on the staff above the Eb bass in the scores, and I remember it, therestill was a euphonium part quite similar to the solo type part also know today.

The French system was the one of Adolphe Sax:

Soprano: Eb flugelhorn
Alto: Bb flugelhorn like the one we know mostly today
Tenor: Eb altohorn, hence the odd British term
Baritone: the slimmer Bb tenor instrument similar to the British style baritone
Bass: the wider Bb tenor instrument slightly smaller than most present-day euphoniums
Contrabass: originally the Eb tuba (Contrebasse en Mi bemol), later on, post-Sax, the BBb tuba (Contrebasse en Mi bemol)

For the low brass the German system has the same concert/marching band parts as the American one. Only they also have two or three Bb Tenorhörner with wider bells than the British baritones. The 1st part often is the main tenor soloist. The 2nd and 3rd parts in some march arrangements double the off-beats of the 2nd and 4th horns, which are not always manned in amateur bands.

Klaus

[GC]

@Klaus: thanks for reminding me. I tend to see antique instrumentation through my Civil War band tunnel vision. The brass band tradition is definitely older in Europe (since the instruments were mostly invented there). The paths of development were similar in most cases, but the differences are interesting.

Also, thanks for putting up the old Sousa march parts. Rifle Regiment is a great march that is rarely played.