tuba defenestration

[MartyNeilan]

I understand the BBb tubas cut to CC, as well as the later CC's that were produced, played with a much more even scale.

[bort]

I did read that. Was just curious if it was beyond a point of fixing, or if it could have been worked on (and not a full rebuild) to fix some of the problems. That is, if B&M could get their stuff together and make later models play better in tune, is it something that could have been similarly adjusted or "fixed" to an older model?

[tclements]

St. Petersburg BBb

[JCalkin]

In high school I was "privileged" enough to play an old Besson 3 valve comp BBb. The 3rd valve compensator had the effect of making the horn stuffy past the point of manageability without the side effect of good intonation. Awkward to hold, had the "castration ball" on the bottom bow.

It may have been a good horn in its day but it was completely ignored from a maintenance perspective.

Had I not attended a different school prior to that and played a nice horn (not to mention having great private instruction at a young age, thanks Matt Walters!) I likely would not have pursued music as a career.

[iiipopes]

In high school I was "privileged" enough to play an old Besson 3 valve comp BBb. The 3rd valve compensator had the effect of making the horn stuffy past the point of manageability without the side effect of good intonation. Awkward to hold, had the "castration ball" on the bottom bow.

That's too bad. It sounds like it needed a good cleaning, corks and felts, and a good going over. The only two notes that are really stuffy on mine are 1+3 C and 1+2+3 B nat, and intonation is damn near perfect. The 5th partials are right on, the 6th partials are not sharp, and the 7th partials are actually usable. Sorry you had a bad experience.

[sailn2ba]

A 1912 Conn BBb I bought for the kids. IT was really so bad that I sprung for valve replating and relapping. Beautiful. . . like a new horn! . . but it always required a lot of diaphragm.

[Alex C]

Couesnon 5 valve (3+2) BBb. It sounded like someone in another room was playing everytime it was played. The pitch was bad but the response was regrettable.

[PWtuba]

Brand new 2009 nickel-silver plated rotary B&S PT-6. Awful sound, terrible intonation, no clarity. Never buy one. You'll certainly never win an orchestra audition.

[bort]

I played a really awful big Cerveny Kaiser once, it was like a garbage can with valves -- hollow, rang like a church bell, and sucked the air right out of you. I also played an awesome Cerveny Kaiser once, which was a TON of fun to play, huge sound, and was everything good you'd want in a tuba (except not for sale!).

[Mojo workin']

Mojo & Marty... I'm curious, were these just clunker versions of that model? Or poor design to begin with?

You both know your stuff, so I'm sure you would've had it serviced, fixed, etc. if it could have been done. Or, was it that something more drastic could have been done to fix it (or better it), but not worth the cost it would have taken?

I only owned the instrument briefly, Bort. In retrospect, If I had decided to hang on to the horn I might have been able to make it work. I don't think that B &M's are bad horns, but this one decidedly had intonation issues. It made a huge, VERY dark sound. I think it may have been improved with some tweaking by a good repairman. I did not have the money to consider this at the time.

[bort]

Makes sense. My question was less of "are B&M's bad" than it was "could it have been fixed?"

Seems like a lot of "bad tubas" *might* have been better had they been repaired or in good shape. But kind of curious where that line is between "fix it" and "forget it"...especially when for the same model of tuba, 1 is a stinker and another is good.

[josh wagner]

Jupiter 3 valve convertible tuba. It was from the very early 90s. IT WAS A PIECE. and then later turned out to be a great contribution to "tuba toss"

[windshieldbug]

"Tuba": A Couesnon BBb. It was so small (SO HOW SMALL WAS IT!?) It was so small and out-of-tune that turning it into French Fry oil vat would have improved both the scale and the tone CONSIDERABLY. Not for the faint of heart.

"Baritone": Again, I use the term loosely. A Horton. Before eBay misspellings, an actual "Horton". And the engraver didn't slip. This stunk up the place so badly that the only thing one MIGHT have smelled was the Couesnon, if it were in the next state.

[Brown Mule]

Boosey 3 valve e flat--------I'd blow so hard i almost passed out and hardly a sound would come out. Sold it quick. Technitions could find nothing wrong.

[Sally Larsen]

I've never been lucky enough to play a truly great horn, and certainly have struggled with some ugly beasts, but when I've asked a really musical tuba player to play the offending instrument, I've either been humbled by my own shortcomings, or pointed toward a specific repair issue.
There is a huge amount of plumbing, and if you like vintage horns, there are going to be issues.
Some days I enjoy the challenges of alternate fingerings . My first owned tuba, a very sweet gift, was famous for funky G's and enormously stuffy 2-3 combos (yep, a Besson).
You could argue that it hones the ear, and forces us to pay attention and compensate for pitch - I'm good with that. My question will always be, just how unwieldy does an instrument have to be to deliver the sound we choose to hear?

[sloan]

You could argue that it hones the ear, and forces us to pay attention and compensate for pitch - I'm good with that.

Yeah...I have a horn like that. An antique, pea-shooter helicon, nominally in the key of Eb. When I play it, it often takes 1/2 hour until I can manage a recognizable major scale on it. After that, I seem to be able
to play reasonably well in tune (either that, or my ears are re-trained to this alternate reality).

But - when I go back to my normal horn (new King 2341 BBb), it's like "going home". Suddenly everything
is easy - like playing in a rocking chair.

"Doctor, Doctor, it hurts when I do that". "Don't do that!"

[Sally Larsen]

But - when I go back to my normal horn (new King 2341 BBb), it's like "going home". Suddenly everything is easy - like playing in a rocking chair.

Interestingly, I also have a King 2341, though an older one. I agree with the ease of intonation, but for me it is ergonomically a nightmare. Moving the lead pipe helped, but it is definitely a compromise.
My son just reminded me of a 3-valve Reynolds horn that was a top-notch candidate for defenestration. Beat-to-tinfoil, and nothing much to begin with, it was a middle-school loaner. As he was learning to play, I let him use my horn, and I struggled with the at-best- marginal beater. It evened the playing field a bit, kept the duets interesting, and made me grateful for the public schools that even own tubas.

[sloan]

But - when I go back to my normal horn (new King 2341 BBb), it's like "going home". Suddenly everything is easy - like playing in a rocking chair.

Interestingly, I also have a King 2341, though an older one.

Try a new one. Very different. Just be sure to "try before you buy".

[Steve Marcus]

Discuss the worst tuba you ever played or owned.

Approximately 12 years ago at a NAMM Show, I wandered downstairs (was that Hall E or Hall C in Anaheim?) where the small, less "glamorous" booths are located. There was a booth staffed by a Chinese man and woman with all sorts of merchandise on display; some of it may not have even been music-related. In the booth was one lone tuba with no brand name nor model etched in it.

I approached the booth, and the couple nodded and smiled faintly. But when I stared at the tuba, they grinned from ear to ear. "You try, you try," they invited me in their terribly limited English. I sat down, picked up the 4-valve front-action 4/4 horn, and confirmed my guess that it was a BBb tuba. But that was the last predictable sound that came out of the poor thing. It was impossible to even play a simple diatonic scale! The pitches were all over the map.

When I put the instrument down after a couple of minutes, the couple walked up to me and asked, "You like?" I had to think of a way to offer a polite answer. "It has a good B-flat," I said without knowing whether they understood me or not. I couldn't leave the booth fast enough as they repeated over and over, "Thank you, thank you..."

[taipeituba]

The Kurath F 4p/1r always seemed to have a reputation for being a good tuba, so back in the mid 90s when there was a second hand one for sale at a shop nearby I jumped at the chance to give it a go.

Well the good reputation didn't last long.......holy cow it was terrible to play. Stuffy, terrible intonation, split notes etc definitely the worse tuba I've ever played. I was embarrassed trying to play it in the shop. Clearly it had been around for a while so someone must have mastered it. How? I don't know.

About 5 years later I first tried a YFB-822.....talk about a totally different experience.