Is it ethical to teach?

[kontrabass]

Don't mind me, just opening up a can of worms... this is not meant to cast judgment but to stimulate discussion.

So - looking at the Auditions board, I couldn't help notice that the majority of posted auditions are members of this board recruiting for their university programs.

I have some friends who are terrific players and very organized, generally successful guys, that didn't achieve their goal of getting orchestral gigs because, let's face it, there ain't enough to go around. But there are still an abundance of universities with music programs, and so the cream of the crop, it seems, end up with university positions, and because they're go-getters, they do a good job and build the tuba studio into a thriving centre of activity with many talented students.

The result - an ever increasing number of talented tuba graduates who, once again, as a majority, can't find work because there ain't enough to go around. So the cream of THAT crop become the next generation of university professors. The rest...well...?

I guess what I'm wondering is - for those of you out there that are teaching a large number of university students... how is it going? Are your students finding success? Some, I'm sure, may win jobs with military bands, universities, maybe even make it as an orchestral player. But there are so many others that won't have a career playing the tuba simply because the field is so crowded. What do your students do? Many become high school teachers, I suppose - others can probably find work in some peripheral field. Are they happy, or generally successful?

Are you preparing your students right now for orchestral auditions, despite the fact that there are no major jobs open and won't be for some time? (not to mention the troubles facing orchestras in the news...) Are you trying to be more pragmatic about it, making sure your students can play jazz and commercial music, or encouraging them to take music production classes, conducting, composition, etc.?

When I went to school, the university system taught me - both explicitly, in the form of encouragement from teachers, and implicitly, in the way the programs were structured - that there was a thriving orchestral business out there, and if I practiced hard enough I could be a part of it. The reality - for me - was different. Luckily I live in a town with a thriving jazz/commercial/world music scene, and I've managed to find a way forward that works for me.

Other former classmates are not so lucky. Some of my talented friends are working full-time retail or office jobs now, approaching or entering their thirties, playing only in amateur groups, not really happy or fulfilled. Others stay in school and pile on the diplomas and degrees, going six figures into debt, not developing any skill other than playing their instrument, surging forward on the hope and belief that some day they will score a plum gig and be able to pay off their loans; most never will. In either case, if they were my former students, I wouldn't feel happy about my work.

I've taught at universities before, but always grappled with the ethics of it. Most of the students are there just because they love music, love playing the tuba, and want to better themselves. Is it ethical to put them on the long road to an orchestral career? Is it ethical not to?

Discuss

[MartyNeilan]

That is why I plug the commercial music and music business degrees that my school offers. In and around Nashville, it is possible to get a job in the music industry if you have the proper training, skills, and attitude. I can sleep well at night knowing that I am not leading my students down a path with minimal employment opportunities.
Note that I said, "a job in the music industry." That covers a lot of ground. I think more prospective music majors should be willing to look at the big picture of their future, and not at the ever shrinking handful of tuba-playing-only jobs that open up every year that pay a living wage.

[TubaBobH]

This is a great thread! I guess I was an above average tuba player when I was younger (1st chair Virginia All State Band in high school, 1st chair Virginia Inter-College Band...). I had band directors and teachers "gently pushing" me into considering making music my profession. However, in the end I decided that I probably wasn't really good enough to "beat the odds" and make a comfortable living playing the tuba. (Or perhaps, if I am being brutally honest, I think I also decided that I was not dedicated enough to work hard enough to "beat the adds".)

Off and on, over the years (as family and career obligations have allowed), I have experienced great enjoyment playing as an amateur. However, as someone who was grappling with this very issue many years ago, I look forward to the responses from the many knowledgeable members of this forum.

[GC]

There are tons of professors in difficult-to-employ fields who have been asking themselves the same basic question for years. Many majors self-perpetuate themselves, turning out students whose primary job outlook is teaching in college turning out more of the same major. Music performance, theater, art, sociology, anthropology, psychology, pure math, and so on have some applications in the job marked, but many of their graduates never find work in their chosen fields outside of making more unemployable majors.

[PWtuba]

"Never pass up an opportunity for employment." That's what the professor of tuba told me at the school I attend. It is his view that we need to have the skills necessary to get any kind of job that we can. When I was doing my college visits here, he strongly recommended me to major in Music Education; the reason being, a Music Education degree will provide you with many more employment options than a degree in Music Performance. Whether I major in performance or education makes little to no difference here, in terms of the attention, teaching, amount of lessons, etc. that I receive. He treats all of us equally, and the primary goal is to make sure we have what it takes to get employed. What that amounts to is teaching us to be the best musicians we can be. It involves preparing us for orchestra auditions. It involves preparing us for military band auditions. It involves preparing us to be freelancers. It involves preparing us to be teachers. His job is to make sure that I get a job.

As for the number of students: Our studio here is comprised of 6 tuba players and 5 euphonium players. I was the only tuba player accepted this year. There was only one tuba player accepted last year. The year before that, I believe that there weren't any tuba players accepted at all. The goal is quality over quantity; if none of the auditioners meet the standards, none of them are accepted. Instead of accepting a set number of students, he only accepts those that he feels are qualified to be there. That said, 10-12 is typically the total number of students that he tries to maintain at all times. It's a flexible number, and if none of the applicants demonstrate the potential he's looking for, none of them are accepted; if there are two or three who are all very promising and highly talented, then maybe they can all be squeezed in.

Anyways, in terms of what this thread is talking about, I think this is an ideal way to go about it; the job of the teacher is to make sure that the students get employed. That's why the number of students is kept small, so that a great deal of attention can be given to each of them.

[Matt Walters]

I think it is a shame if a teacher only teaches students to play the excerpts or whatever notes are on the page. I don’t play the tuba for a living but many of the lessons Dave Bragunier taught me in college have held true throughout many aspects of my life. He taught me life lessons and psychology through music that have held up under the microscope of time. I can’t thank him enough. I hope one day I make such a positive impact.
I just took on a private tuba student that is a High School junior learning the culinary trade. He converted from clarinet to tuba back in September and loved the tuba so much he wanted to take lessons. The “Holiday Concert” is coming in 2 weeks and there is no way he is going to get the harder parts to “Nutcracker” in time. So, we worked on getting right what he can learn. When he asked what about the really hard parts I told him to “fake softly.” My explanation was this: “If you are a chef that has something bazaar like brazed ostrich brain with mash potatoes and string beans on the menu, I couldn’t tell good from bad brazed ostrich brain and might hate it either way. However, I know darn well what mashed potatoes are supposed to taste like. You better be able to make good mashed potatoes!! We need to first learn how to correctly play the simple stuff that everyone expects a tuba player to do.”
He may or may not end up a famous chef, but I bet he learns how to make good mashed potatoes and will remember his old tuba teacher when he gets compliments on them.

[pgym]

However, I know darn well what mashed potatoes are supposed to taste like.

Fluffy or creamy?

[sailn2ba]

However, answers to that simple question have split into a whole tree of philosophical considerations..
1. Job potential. . . how about informed guidance counselors? ((Whut?). Anyway, folks who perform well on general tests are told that they can “do anything they want”. .Info on a specific field comes from their individual contacts (GOOD for tubenet). Personally, at age 23, I played beside Abe Torchinsky and realized that my calling was engineering. BUT. . . I still play tuba well and get a lot of enjoyment from it. All said, Our culture profits from good-sounding tubas.
2. Beginners are our source. Mid-school bands need them for foundation (Won’t speak to why marching bands need ‘em.). AND, most important(!) some folks really like to play tuba..

OK, back Matt W’s comment. . . I always tell folks to get a good sound first.
Then, worry about dynamics (takes a while to play soft and loud sweetly). Then, do the best you can with articulation. If you have to choose, drop the faster notes. Mostly, the tuba has to hit the beats or half beats on pitch.


And, . .I like mashed potatoes most ways they’re served

[ztuba]

Let's not forget that tuba players with degrees that were paid for by sports programs needing a bottom end on their marching band are very employable in other fields than just music.

[sloan]

Any student who enters a student-teacher relationship expecting a PARTICULAR job at the end is not a student - he's an apprentice.

Any student who studies only ONE skill/discipline is not a student - he's a trainee.

If you go to a college or university expecting job training, you are simply deluded. There are better, much more efficient ways to get training. Colleges and universities simply aren't very good at it.

When I teach, my approach is to teach the material AS IF every student had as their primary goal to take MY job. but...my job only becomes available once every 40 years. So, I realize that virtually all of my students are also studying other things, and will eventually find a way of life that allows them to combine what they learn from me with whatever it is they learn from all those other professors. I'm not training them for a specific job - I'm teaching them what I know, hoping they can integrate it into something that is theirs and theirs alone.

Grad students? Well, if we are talking about PhD students, then my goal is not so much to duplicate me as it is to produce a worthy colleague. Every once in a great while, I succeed. Mostly, I don't - but most of my "non-successes" turn out to be successful in some way that neither I nor the student anticipated. Every time I have succeeded, the student taught me in the last 6 months at least as much as I taught them in the preceding 3 years.

My philosophy for teaching (and learning) is also my philosophy of life: "The means justify the ends"

[Lew]

Ken,

Your answer is the traditional one for colleges and universities, and probably the best way to view a college education, but it seems that the majority of students, and professors for that matter, have a different perspective these days.

It is interesting that you make that comment when what you teach, computer science, is a more applied field than many others. Most students studying computer science will end up as systems developers of some sort, not researchers, whether that is their goal or not. I teach information systems in a college of business in which there is no IS major. My students, both undergrad and MBA, are taking my courses because they are required as part of a program that has a primary goal of preparing students to be professionals in whatever business field in which they are majoring. They are not pursuing the goal of a traditional "liberal arts" education of learning how to think, but are focused on more training in skills to prepare for certain careers. My courses teach how to integrate information into various business functions and the types of technologies and associated issues with those technologies that facilitate using this information. Most of the programs in our school require, or at least strongly recommend, some form of internship as part of the degree program. I don't disagree that those students who are planning to be marketeers, managers, or financial analysts might not get better preparation for such careers through some form of apprenticeship program, but most employers these days looking to fill those types of jobs have expectations regarding degrees and certain skills/knowledge before hiring. A program like ours is probably as close to an apprenticeship as students are likely to find these days.

What are the "colleges" that are most successful these days? Primarily the for-profit schools like the University of Phoenix or Cappella. These schools are clearly focused on skill training and not a balanced education. I am not suggesting that this is the best model, but it seems to be what industry is demanding. Students with a "general" college education these days will find themselves at a great disadvantage when looking for a job. At one point in my career I worked for a CIO who had a degree in French. The odds of someone with that background making it to that type of position any more are much lower than they used to be.

Which brings me back to the original question. What is the point of so many tuba majors when there aren't very many tuba playing jobs? I believe that everybody needs to pursue that about which they are passionate. You have to believe that you are going to be the one who gets whatever job there is out there when you enter a program like this, but that isn't really the point. If you are not passionate about what you are doing you are not likely to succeed in whatever field it is in. A college program may be the way that one realizes that while they love playing tuba they do not have the combination of drive and talent that it takes, or they may realize their potential and become the next great player. In either case, what job one gets when they graduate may or may not be related to the degree in tuba performance. It is unfortunate if someone graduates and at the age of 22 or 23 realizes that they do not have any job prospects, but that happens in every field. They will need to find that thing that does motivate them and allow them to make a living, or they may find a way to get by playing tuba. My sister's case is a perfect example of this. She graduated from Oberlin conservatory with a Bachelor's in French Horn performance and from the University of Cincinnati with a Masters in French Horn. I think she got her Masters in 1983. She then began auditioning for every horn position that came up in every orchestra across the country. She didn't get any of them. She somehow found a way to make enough to live on taking in private students and playing in part time pay per service groups. She had a brass quintet (with Velvet Brown on tuba) that recorded a couple of CDs that took in a little money, but never enough to live comfortably. This is still how she makes a living. She never seems to have much money, but she is doing what she loves by playing horn in various groups and taking in private students. What else is life about if not about doing that thing that brings you the most joy?

[PWtuba]

Anyways, in terms of what this thread is talking about, I think this is an ideal way to go about it; the job of the teacher is to make sure that the students get employed. That's why the number of students is kept small, so that a great deal of attention can be given to each of them.

I'm curious as to what percentage of the people graduating from your program actually get jobs "in their field" and how they define "in their field." Professional tuba players? Music educators? People in some vaguely music-related job?

For the last several years, immediate post-graduation placement rate into a music occupation from the program, graduate and undergraduate, has been 100%. Professional tuba players yes, music educators yes. Full-time or part-time positions, "in their field." And by in their field, I mean whatever field they so chose to major in/focus their studies on, whether it be music ed, music performance, music theory, music history, etc. So if you're questioning whether or not it actually works, yes, it certainly does. In fact it was one of the biggest reasons I chose to attend.

Since you asked...

[sloan]

Your reply begs the question.

How many Mathematics majors end up in jobs with the title "Mathematician"?

How many History majors end up in jobs with the title "History"?

Why on earth should I assume that most, or even many, of my Computer Science majors will end up with jobs as "computer scientists".

They don't. The often end up in jobs where computer programming is a useful skill - but (repeat after me) computer programming and information technology is NOT what we teach. It's something you pick up as a necessary tool.

The University of Phoenix doesn't teach - it certifies that the "students" have passed some proficiency test and appear to be well trained. Perhaps that's what some students want. If that's what they want, I wish them the best of luck, and hope that they get what they want from UofP. They won't get it from me.

I don't think there's anything strange about a Tuba Performance major leaving school to become a lawyer, or an accountant, or a business executive, or a physician. In my view, it is simply wrong-headed to think that college major is the same as a career choice. I might have some question about whether "Tuba Performance" is a legitimate field of study - but once I give it the benefit of the doubt and assume that it is - I have to also believe that some undergraduates will major in Tuba Performance and then take the LSAT and go to law school.
Why not?

Of course, a lot of Tuba Performance majors go off to take jobs as Band Directors. I don't find that any more, or less, strange. After all, there doesn't seem to be an undergraduate major in Band Directing. [oh, wait - you don't think that that's what "Music Education" is, do you?]

As for computer science undergraduates - they often take ENTRY LEVEL jobs that require skills that they pick up along the way. Then they move on, and up. In the beginning, our students are at a slight dis-advantage when competing against students who went to "Computer Programming Training Program" - but after 1 year on the job, our students are WAY ahead of the game - and the "computer programmers" are stalled at the entry level.

As for "what industry wants" - who cares? Industry is not paying the bills. Industry can define the curriculum when they found the institution, build the buildings, and pay the salaries. Lots of industries do that - they have in-house training programs that do all the "training" required in a couple of short courses. If that's all you need, you can probably teach all the entry level skills that a "computer science" student has in one summer (call it 10 weeks). Enlightened industry knows that what they want are broadly educated employees (who will be credible candidates to rise through the corporate management ranks) who also happen to have the appropriate entry level skills.

I submit it's the same for most people who make music a career. Find the "tuba player" that you most admire. Now - look at his/her collection of skills and knowledge at age 30. If "producing notes on a tuba" is the only skill they have, I submit that there's not much to admire there. There needs to be more...a lot more.

If you want to be a note-producer, find a private teacher and a practice room. After a few years, you might
be a performer who might know absolutely NOTHING about "music".

If you want to be a musician who happens to play the tuba - insist on a well-rounded education that includes tuba performance aspects.

If you supply a well-rounded education that includes tuba performance aspects - why would you limit your target audience to those who plan on a career as a note-producer? Don't you think that this education might
be useful to music teachers, conductors, composers, lawyers, physicians, mathematicians, engineers, and computer programmers?

Taking another tack: if your GOAL is to produce the next great tuba performer - it would be very foolish to accept only ONE student and gamble that *that* student is "the one". It seems to me that you accept as many as you can handle (and as many as will pay for the experience) and let the competition begin. Education guarantees the opportunity to COMPETE for the best jobs - it doesn't guarantee that you will GET that job.

For many undergraduate computer science geeks, the current "Holy Grail" is a job with Google. Should I accept as students only those who I can guarantee a job with Google? No - I'm happy to teach to a population that includes some students who will never land that dream job. Again - I offer entrance into the game, but not
a guaranteed winning ticket. You need to compete for that. And again...not everyone wants that Google job, even if it offered. And also...sometimes you can't predict at 18 who will have The Right Stuff at 22.

If there are a lot of Tuba Performance majors, I have to assume it's because a lot of students really want to study Tuba Performance. If they think this guarantees them a job with the NY Phil - well, they're simply mistaken. If there are people who TELL THEM that this guarantees them a job with the NY PHil - well, they're simply lying. BUT - please notice that there are lots of legitimate reasons for someone to offer instruction in Tuba Performance and NOT make any such guarantees.

Which leads us back to: if you think the only reason anyone might want to study Tuba Performance is to get a job as a Tuba Performer - then you have just revealed a very damning opinion of "Tuba Performance" as a field of study. I might even agree with you on that. But, out of courtesy to my Tuba Performance instructor colleagues, I'm willing to give it the benefit of the doubt. After all...I've been "studying" Tuba Performance for a long, long time....and no one has offered me a job doing it yet.

Bottom line: I'm not at all impressed by "job placement data" as any indication of the quality of an undergraduate (or even graduate) degree program. I'm sure it's a good thing - but there are many more important questions I would ask in order to evaluate the program. I think I might actually prefer a program with a 75% job placement record over one with a 100% record. Teaching to the test, and all that...

[PWtuba]

I was just referring to the OP's question. The point was that only a select few who show promise, have talent, and demonstrate self-motivation will be accepted. If teachers are teaching a multitude of tubists to become professional musicians, naturally there isn't room for all of them, and many of them are going to have their dreams crushed simply because there are too many tuba players out there.

I'm certainly not saying that "job placement rate" is what defines a good program. And when I talked about getting the skills necessary for getting jobs as musicians, I thought it was implied that being able to make music out of the notes was one of those skills. As you said, if producing notes on a tuba is the only skill they have, there won't be anything to admire, and consequently, nobody without that skill will be making a living as a professional musician.

Being only a freshman music education major in college, I admit I don't have a whole lot of perspective on this topic. This is just my opinion regarding the OP. I don't think most music professors are in the habit of blowing smoke up their students arses... Instead, the goal should be to help each student become the best musician they can be, and to help each student to be ready for the challenge of seeking jobs. Whatever field a student chooses to study is their choice, whether it be music, math, history, engineering, or basket weaving; and the teachers of those fields then do their best to help them excel.

For the record, I am here to learn and to gain new perspectives; occasionally I stick my nose into a topic that I don't know very much about, and perhaps this is one of them.

[kontrabass]

Good replies guys.

Thinking back to my own student days, I always bristled when my teachers got too "jobby" on me, as in, tried to figure out a safe, viable career option for me in case the orchestral thing didn't work out. My position was - I'll be my responsible for my own success, thank you, now please don't sell me short, I'm here because I want to be the greatest in the world. It turned out that the path I was on was not right for me - but what I learned along the way was invaluable.

Reminds me of the old saying about zen masters - if you want to learn zen, pick a master, and study with him for ten years. Don't shop around, and don't question or criticize the master. He is a human being. Be a perfect student, and learn perfect zen from an imperfect master.

I suppose, in an ideal world, the pursuit of the tuba at a university level should be a similar period of intense self-discipline that will lead to some sort of personal actuation and awakening, which will then allow the student to transition successfully into whatever corner of the business he or she sees fit - whether that's performing, some other music job, or something completely different (doctor, lawyer, engineer, etc.).

The biggest problem that I see is a predication on universities to push students into attaining jobs in the current classical industry - to reflect glory and legitimacy back on the school - and an obsession among students of attaining status by "scoring" jobs. Get an orchestral job and you've won the gold medal, you're a somebody, and everyone else is a loser. That's the mentality I experienced, and fully bought into, as an 18-year-old hot shot, and it wasn't healthy. But it's everywhere now.

This is the core of the teacher's dilemma. A studio full of students that want to be orchestral players, that want to score the job - how interested are they going to be in acquiring peripheral skills? This is the problem I would have, if I were a full-time teacher - dealing with students whose priorities weren't in order. If they don't make it, are they going to lead a fulfilled life doing something else, or will they be broke and depressed? I guess the question is, how do you impart your wisdom and knowledge about how to succeed in life at the same time that you teach someone how to play the tuba? Figure that out and you'll be a great teacher, I guess.

[Lew]

Ken,

(A little lag in response due to end of semester grading.) I think we are pretty much in agreement in the concept that college majors should not be primarily selected based on one's career plans. That doesn't mean however that one's major does not have an impact on the opportunities that one will have in life for certain jobs. My last paragraph was an attempt to illustrate that it is ethical to teach tuba playing at the university level, as the original question asked, because there are students for whom this is their passion. I do think that their is a difference between mathematics or English majors and business or engineering majors. The former are learning in depth skills that may have general applicability while the latter are being trained in a profession. The difference between what we do in a business school and what an accounting student could get at a community college, or at a for profit college is that we require them to have a more well rounded curriculum and focus on critical thinking and writing skills, not just tests of facts.

Your premise would suggest that one's undergraduate major doesn't matter at all. To say

"If you supply a well-rounded education that includes tuba performance aspects - why would you limit your target audience to those who plan on a career as a note-producer? Don't you think that this education might be useful to music teachers, conductors, composers, lawyers, physicians, mathematicians, engineers, and computer programmers?"

implies that it is one's graduate degree that determines their ability to perform a particular job, for in order for a music major to become a "lawyers, physicians, mathematicians, engineers, or computer programmers" they are likely to need an additional degree. Otherwise you are suggesting that one could work in one of these fields purely based on on-the-job training.

It would be nice to believe that "[e]nlightened industry knows that what they want are broadly educated employees (who will be credible candidates to rise through the corporate management ranks) who also happen to have the appropriate entry level skills," but the sorry fact today is that companies making hiring decisions like this are in the minority today. I worked in HR systems for a number of years and met with HR reps at conferences from many different companies and the days when a French major could be hired into a management training program and become CEO are pretty much over. Should we only teach what industry wants? I think not. But, should we consider the needs of industry in building our curriculum, probably. I would reword your statement to say that enlightened industry wants candidates with skills and knowledge in the field for which they are to be hired along with a broad general education that helps develop writing and critical thinking skills in addition to mere knowledge of specific facts.

College used to be a place to develop the general skills about which you are speaking , but expectations for colleges from both students and hiring managers have changed. While one's college major is not their only destiny, it does have an impact, otherwise why have majors at all? Why not just have every undergraduate program provide a "liberal arts" degree? The fact that there are majors implies that the selection of a major matters. I got my undergraduate and first Master's degree in industrial engineering, with concentration in Operations Research and systems analysis. My first job after graduating was in manufacturing engineering and all of the jobs I was offered at that time were in similar types of fields. I worked in market research, sales, network engineering, and finally in information systems before going back to school for a Ph.D. and moving into academia. I had job offers when I graduated that were directly related to my major, and every one of the jobs that I had over the subsequent 30 years would not have been offered to someone with a degree in tuba performance or English.

Should someone be able to major in tuba performance? Of course! But they should realize that if they want a job other than in a field directly related to music they are going to have to work that much harder and/or take additional training and/or education to qualify for such positions.

[Alex C]

Is it ethical to put them on the long road to an orchestral career? Is it ethical not to?

Good post. I can't make a logical flow out of my response.

The employment landscape in music has changed very recently. I believe it is the teacher's job to help the student realize and react to that from the first day they enter the studio. That is ethical teaching.

---

I don't think it is ethical for a teacher to "put" any student on a career road. I always felt like it was the teachers job to lay out the options and let the student make the choice.

---

The recruiting ads in the Audition forum are a product of university administration. If you've been hired by a university to be a studio teacher and your studio doesn't grow, the administration will not continue to employ you. This is just one of a number of sad changes in our society.

If I were in that position, I'd use every means at my disposal to continue being employed. I encourage you to keep on posting, gentlemen.

[Brown Mule]

Let's simpify this whole thing------just get a double major. 1 Tuba Performance 2 Business Administration. If you don't get the prized orchestra job, get a job in the corporate world. After work go to a good community band or wind ensemble and relieve your frustrations and have fun, maybe even teach a little. If you're aggresive, the corporate job will end up paying more anyway.

[Rick Denney]

Summarizing something Lew said that was in complete agreement with the expected truth from Ken:

The only required justification for teaching is students desiring to be taught. The motivations and desires of those students is their own business--at the college level they are grownups, or they are being funded by grownups, and it's time for the long pants.

Teachers who hoodwink their students into believing that possibilities exist that don't are simply lying, as Ken says. That's the unethical part. But parents (or future employers) who expect college to provide mere job training will not like the results they get if they are successful in realizing those expectations, and often they attempt to enforce those expectations on the students in appropriately. That is also unethical. Don't blame the teaching for either of those sins.

Dr. Sloan is a professional educator at the college level, and I'm a professional trainer at the adult level, so we come at the same conclusion from opposite directions.

Rick "who learned many things in college of no direct commercial use but of extreme professional and eduational value" Denney

[Slamson]

I think this thread is beginning to get to the "moral" of the original post.

I believe that teachers at the collegiate level (whether or not they are teaching a a college...) have an ethical obligation to any student who demonstrates an interest in a professional playing career to paint as vivid a picture as possible about the incredibly poor prospects for that career. I have often felt that my grad school teacher, Art Hicks, was overly optimistic when he told me that "... you can make it as a player, but expect to spend a few years living on baloney sandwiches." I still get sick even looking at one of those giant red sticks of baloney.

Of course, Art's advice wasn't baloney - but nowadays, when students come to me (regardless of their ability or potential) and are interested in pursuing a professional career, I start with the math. We talk about the number of jobs that get advertised in the IM each year (two, three, this year?), plus the ones in the Chronicle (gee, maybe six?). We talk about the number of decent jobs available in service bands (shrinking), and then the number of schools in this country graduating excellent players every year. Even the most math-challenged person can see that the probability of succeeding as a professional player in the NTL (National Tuba League) is slimmer than succeeding in the NFL... after all, the Detroit Lions probably employ more players than all of the professional tuba players in the rest of Michigan (and look how well the Lions are doing...).

I've lost potential students by pointing out the long odds of becoming a professional player - they seem to perceive my negativity as a sign of "weakness" on my part - but I sleep a lot better at night knowing I haven't promised anyone a ticket to a counter job at MacDonald's. At the same time, I make it clear to all of my students that they are entitled to the same playing opportunities, regardless of their degree program. As a result, I've taught students who did the necessary "training" (aka something like the music ed or music business coursework) while becoming excellent players, and then if "the job" didn't materialize, they were capable (and happy) that they could remain involved in music. Some might say that that's cheapening one program or the other, but I don't see how encouraging a person to become more involved in any aspect of music can make them less of a musician.

Given the changing times, shrinking jobs in orchestras (if they're not going bankrupt, they're downsizing by playing lots of "all-Mozart" programs), and growing number of excellent players, it's time to make sure that all "budding Bobos" go into this with their eyes wide open.