Mouthpiece Size comparison Chart

AndyCat · Post by **AndyCat** » Mon Jan 03, 2005 8:26 am

Hi all,

Whilst bored some time ago (very, some may say!) I've compiled a simple Excel spreadsheet on Tuba Mouthpiece basic sizes for anyone (myself initially!) to get an idea of possible changes in equipment regards the size of mouthpiece used presently.

It's on my website and can be downloaded and edited if you wish. If anyone has anything to add, please do so and let me know, I'll keep it updated if people send me extra info.

It is by no means comprehensive, don't get me wrong, but seems to be useful to people who already know about it!

http://www.andycattanach.co.uk

It's on the 2nd page!

AndyCat · Post by **AndyCat** » Mon Jan 03, 2005 12:12 pm

Thanks to Christian Klein (cjk on tubenet), the Mouthpiece Comparison Chart has already had a massive update! He passed on to me an extensive chart he'd almost finished, so the one on my website is now a hybrid of both his and mine!

Thanks Christian!

http://acattanach.users.btopenworld.com/ac/

Mark · Post by **Mark** » Mon Jan 03, 2005 1:08 pm

AndyCat wrote:I've compiled a simple Excel spreadsheet on Tuba Mouthpiece basic sizes for anyone (myself initially!) to get an idea of possible changes in equipment regards the size of mouthpiece used presently.

Thank you!

cjk · Post by **cjk** » Mon Jan 03, 2005 10:49 pm

Thats really cool guys, one that i noticed on there to be missing is all of the Helleburg mouthpieces. Since they are so widely used why don't you throw some of em in there.

Even Conn's own descriptions for the Conn Helleberg

and Conn Helleberg 7B mouthpieces lack any dimensions at all. They only use wishy-washy arbitrary words like "deep" and "medium deep".

Plus, I've tried them and I don't like them.

My contribution to Andy's spreadsheet was a sheet I put together for me to find mouthpieces with rims that had similar dimensions to rims that I already knew I liked.

If you can find Conn Helleberg specifications, please do send them to Andy.

Christian

corbasse · Post by **corbasse** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 7:20 am

cc_tuba_guy wrote: BTW, Who is Joseph Klier? He has CERTAINLY put in lots of time in making mouthpieces.

Josef Klier

Very popular around here. Not too expensive, excelent workmanship and extremely consistent in measurements (by which I mean you can order several mpces of the same model and they'll actually be the same. That's not the case with some other brands).

UDELBR · Post by **UDELBR** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 7:30 am

Kliers are also cool because they're objectively incremental. If you like the cup width, but would like to try a deeper cup, you simply choose the next highest letter. Like the cup depth, but want a wider cup? Try the next highest number then. Simple and logical.

AndyCat · Post by **AndyCat** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 12:57 pm

Thanks for all your comments guys!

The chart is now fully "inched up" thanks to a Tubenet member for all you imperialists! Christians original was as well, but I don't tend to use inches so unwittingly took them out! Sorry!

Keep them coming! As mentioned, there are no PUBLISHED measurements for Conn mouthpieces, only measurements of individuals own pieces, so I've not included those.

jmh3412 · Post by **jmh3412** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 2:15 pm

Great work Andy. Now where's my anaorak.......................

Jonathan

AndyCat · Post by **AndyCat** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 2:47 pm

Great work Andy. Now where's my anaorak.......................

That's what a two week abscess and no beer over Christmas does to a man!

Rick Denney · Post by **Rick Denney** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 3:59 pm

AndyCat wrote:Thanks for all your comments guys!

The chart is now fully "inched up" thanks to a Tubenet member for all you imperialists! Christians original was as well, but I don't tend to use inches so unwittingly took them out! Sorry!

Keep them coming! As mentioned, there are no PUBLISHED measurements for Conn mouthpieces, only measurements of individuals own pieces, so I've not included those.

If you'll tell us how you are making the measurements, I'll measure up my Conn mouthpiece for you. If you are using factory numbers, then I suspect that the measurement methods are inconsistent enough to overhsadow Conn's inconsistency.

Is depth measured from the narrowest part of the throat to a flat surface touching the rim? That would be easiest to measure, and you could test a couple of the factory numbers against your own pieces to see if it seems right.

Rick "whose other mouthpieces are either on the list or are no longer made" Denney

AndyCat · Post by **AndyCat** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 4:07 pm

Hi Rick,

Yep, generally just using Factory measurements. I certainly wouldn't be keen on getting a definate cup depth myself, as I'm not the most consistent with such accurate measurements!

Christian supplied most of the cup depths, but I think they're all from brochures or web sites.

I don't actually possess any Conn mouthpieces, but I'm willing to put them in if someone can accurately measure them!

Thanks again,

TubaRay · Post by **TubaRay** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 5:38 pm

I appreciate the effort you made in creating the chart, Andy. Rick is correct in saying that this is yet another area where there is apparently a lack of standardization. Doug Elliott has also done a comparison chart. It is somewhat different in design than your's, but nonetheless helpful. As a footnote to his chart, Doug mentions the difficulty in arriving at a standard manner of measuring.

So, once again, the TubeNet "Resident Genius" has been right on top of things.

ai698 · Post by **ai698** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 6:15 pm

Great chart. Here's Bruno Tilz's website with all of his mouthpieces:
http://www.mundstueckbau-tilz.de/

UDELBR · Post by **UDELBR** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 2:19 am

ai698 wrote: Here's Bruno Tilz's website with all of his mouthpieces:
http://www.mundstueckbau-tilz.de/

Hey! They only make 'pieces for F and BBb tubas!

AndyCat · Post by **AndyCat** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 1:32 pm

Great chart. Here's Bruno Tilz's website with all of his mouthpieces:

The chart now includes these.

ai698 · Post by **ai698** » Fri Jan 07, 2005 10:30 pm

Hey! They only make 'pieces for F and BBb tubas!

You'll have to transpose them for CC and Eb tubas

Rick Denney · Post by **Rick Denney** » Mon Jan 10, 2005 9:57 am

sbring wrote:The only thing needed for a standardized application on tuba mouthpieces would be consensus on which coin size to use when measuring cup depth.

I don't think this would work for tuba mouthpieces. Trombone mouthpieces are typically cup-shaped, with a relatively flat-bottomed bowl. Many tuba mouthpieces are funnel-shaped, and the taper of the funnel can affect how deep a coin could be inserted with greater variation than estimating the depth by eye. I often put my thumb into a mouthpiece to measure depth, and even though my "coin" is covered with nerve endings, often cannot tell much by what I feel.

Most all tuba mouthpieces have a throat between 7 and 9 mm (the Dr. Young mouthpiece might be bigger). If you measured the depth to a 9mm ball bearing you would get closer than using a coin. But I think real accuracy would come from measuring the depth from a plane that just touches the rim to the narrowest point in the throat's venturi (or to a ball bearing that is larger than the throat by a standard amount).

I would also like relatively precise measures of the radius of curvature in the mouthpiece rim and the diameter of the rim at the inside surface of this radius (as opposed to wherever the manufacturer wants to measure it).

I would also want the cup volume, which could be accurately measured but only by someone with good lab skills.

But we still would not get at the measurements that matter, which include the curvature of the inside of the cup, the curvature through the throat, and the taper of the backbore. And then we would not understand how those work together.

First, though, it makes sense to write down our purpose for having mouthpiece comparison chart. A couple of reasons occur to me. The first is that if there is one thing we would like to change in our mouthpiece, who might make a mouthpiece that is similar to our current one but that is different in that one way? The other reason is to find the mouthpiece in another line that is most similar to the one we have experience with. So, for example, if all the buzz about Laskey or Mike Finn mouthpieces has tempted me to try one, which one has a rim most like the Perantucci that I currently find comfortable?

What we won't achieve is any ability to predict by looking at the chart how a mouthpiece will perform on a given instrument, or what of our strengths and weakness it will enhance or diminish.

Rick "who has chosen all his mouthpieces based on recommendations from those he trusts, tested by direct trial" Denney

AndyCat · Post by **AndyCat** » Tue Jan 11, 2005 5:00 pm

The chart now includes the sizes from the Giddings and Webster site, as well as the Tilz published sizes.

http://www.andycattanach.co.uk

Keep them coming!

JayW · Post by **JayW** » Thu Jan 13, 2005 11:36 pm

just wanted to say thanks for such a great thing. It makes it so much easier now to find comparable mouthpieces without doing all the web surfing. definitely two thumbs up

AndyCat · Post by **AndyCat** » Fri Jan 14, 2005 2:07 am

Thanks for the comments guys!

Christian Klein has done some more work on this, so there is yet another update to the chart!

http://www.andycattanach.co.uk

Cheers Christian!

TubeNet

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