Mom here - need your opinions on tubas please

[ken k]

I will echo the suggestion to get a King 2341. They are a very basic and easy to play concert tuba with a great sound and good intonation characteristics. They do not have a very large bore and are easy to play for a younger player such as your son and he wil not out grow it anytime soon. It may be a little on the big side for him at his point but it should not be excessive. the Yamaha 321 is a much taller instrument and the reach up to the valves I think is a bit awkward. i have never been a huge fan of this tuba. It is not a bad horn but I just like the kIng more. Both are well built and solid horns and will last a long time with proper care. And as Elephant mentioned earlier, should the need for repair arise, parts availability will not be an issue with either horn.

Jupiter also make a larger 4 valved horn I think the model number is a 582?? I have not personally played this horn but I have heard good things about it. Jupiter instruments have been steadily improving over the past few years.

Also Holton used to make a nice 4/4 four valve front valved horn designed by Harvey Phillips. I do not recall the model number but if you can find a used one it would be a nice horn for your son to use. It is not quite as large as the King. Another good student four valved horn is the Conn 5J. Not as large as the King either, but still a very well built and easy to play horn.

Where are you located? Unfortunatley there are not a lot of places that stock many tubas to try. In the east is Dillons (NJ) and Tuba Exchange (SC), in the mid west is woodwind and brasswind (IN), Custom Music and Tubadome, Witchita band Instruments. Taylor Music in one South Dakota. On the west coast is horn guys (LA I think). there used to be a place called Brook Mays in TX but I think they went out of business, but I would think there has to be a place in TX with bands being what they are down there. Mid South Music in TN. These are some places that would have a few tubas to try out. I am sure there are others I cannot think of right now (my apologies to those vendors). There are few vendors on ebay who often fix up horns and resell them. I would think if you had a specific model in mind you would be fairly safe purchasing from one of them.

sorry if I reiterated other messages, I did not read the entire thread.
ken k

[imperialbari]

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=41745

How about this one?

For a 5' boy?

Klaus

[Rick Denney]

We live in the Birmingham, Alabama area and his middle school uses Yamahas thought I'm not sure of the model.

Please find the Tubenet regular whose screen name is "sloan". He is a professor of computer science at UAB and an avid amateur tuba player. There are two things you can learn from him:

1.) Opportunities for lessons with a tuba player in the Birmingham area, and

2.) If it can be arranged, an opportunity to get a personal testimonial on a newer King 2341.

He also playes in several local community bands, so attending a concert of one of those groups and then chatting with him after the performance might be one strategy for getting together.

(And, as others have said, top-action or front-action is just a matter of how you hold the horn. Both still use the right hand, and for both the valves mean the same thing. I actually own both types and switch between instruments with no issue. But I don't see well out of my left eye so a tuba with a right-facing bell just won't do for me. The Yamaha is top-heavy and ungainly when you let go of it with the left hand to turn pages. I play an instrument considerably larger than the Yamaha, and turn pages with my right hand, just taking my hand away from the valves for a moment.)

Rick "suggesting a private message to 'sloan'" Denney

[iiipopes]

I was 5' tall when I started 7th grade, and about 5' 9" when I graduated high school. My school was able to purchase King 2341's when I was there, and I marched with King souzys. I absolutely concur with purchasing a used King 2341. It's the best tuba for high school made: moderate bore, easy to blow, good intonation overall, well "nested" valve block so it resists damage, and if something untoward does happen, the basic tuba with only minor variations has been made for about a century, so any shop worth its tools should have a good "morgue" of "crash parts" to fix it with. If he stays with tuba as a music major in college, he'll be able to sell it readily if he is encouraged to get a different tuba. If not, he will have an instrument that will be welcome in any community band for the rest of his life.

[BAtlas]

1.) Opportunities for lessons with a tuba player in the Birmingham area, and

2.) If it can be arranged, an opportunity to get a personal testimonial on a newer King 2341.

While good for early lessons and playing technique, there really comes a time when having an actual tuba player as a teacher can be a great benefit. Buying a tuba would be one of those situations where I really believe you need to seek consult from a Tubist. A Tuba player (one who has been playing for a while and is worth his salt) will have already gone through the process of trying different tubas, researching brands, etc. Not only will he/she have relevant advice for you, but they will also be able to really empathize with your situation of having to buy a tuba. Even if it's a one time thing, taking the extra drive to get professional advice can pay off in the long run.

[TMurphy]

There are lots of good suggestions here. Just be sure to keep the lines of communication open with both your son's private teacher, and his band director. As a middle school band director myself, I've had kids come in one day with a new instrument that I had no idea they were getting, only to have it be worse than the rental they just returned. If the parents had given me a heads up that they were thinking about buying, I could've helped them make a better purchase. Of course, you're here asking for help on TubeNet, so you won't fall into that category.

As far as switching from top action to front action, or pistons to rotors, as long as the instrument is in the same key (Bb, in your case), there is really no difference at all, except that front action is, in my opinion, more comfortable ergonomically. I have a high school student who is in exactly that situation, and he has no trouble switching between his front-action tuba and the school-owned top-action horn.

Personally, I would also recommend the King 2341. I owned one in college, and it was a solid horn, at a reasonable price. There are some other horns I would definitely consider and look into, but the King would be high on the list.

Good luck and keep us posted!

[sloan]

PM sent. I'd be happy to help. Have 2341, will travel.

Birmingham Community Concert Band plays a Christmas program at the Gardendale Civic Center on Sunday 5 December. I'll be there - but leave the country for two weeks the next day.

It's Thanksgiving weekend and I'm just sitting around with nothing to do - send me a PM and perhaps we can get together this weekend?

We live in the Birmingham, Alabama area and his middle school uses Yamahas thought I'm not sure of the model.

Please find the Tubenet regular whose screen name is "sloan". He is a professor of computer science at UAB and an avid amateur tuba player. There are two things you can learn from him:

1.) Opportunities for lessons with a tuba player in the Birmingham area, and

2.) If it can be arranged, an opportunity to get a personal testimonial on a newer King 2341.

He also playes in several local community bands, so attending a concert of one of those groups and then chatting with him after the performance might be one strategy for getting together.

(And, as others have said, top-action or front-action is just a matter of how you hold the horn. Both still use the right hand, and for both the valves mean the same thing. I actually own both types and switch between instruments with no issue. But I don't see well out of my left eye so a tuba with a right-facing bell just won't do for me. The Yamaha is top-heavy and ungainly when you let go of it with the left hand to turn pages. I play an instrument considerably larger than the Yamaha, and turn pages with my right hand, just taking my hand away from the valves for a moment.)

Rick "suggesting a private message to 'sloan'" Denney

[TUBAD83]

One thing that has not been mentioned much: cost. How much are you willing to invest--every tuba thats been mentioned thus far is going to cost at least 4k used and between 5k to 8k new. Between middle and senior high school I changed instruments twice--not to say that your son will do that but it is a real possibility. Another possibility is that he may quit band in high school and pursue something else--and you will end up with an expensive instrument that you will most likely have to take a loss to get rid of it or hold on to it till better times come along.

I would advise patience--wait until he is in high school and see how he likes the program. In the meantime he can save up and contribute in the purchase of this tuba if he really wants it. That 3-valver will serve him just fine for now (there have been tuba players who have made all state without having a tuba at home--by practicing before and after school..they found a way). Good luck!

JJ

[taipeituba]

It may be a little on the big side for him at his point but it should not be excessive. the Yamaha 321 is a much taller instrument and the reach up to the valves I think is a bit awkward. i have never been a huge fan of this tuba.

It's been a long time time since I was 13, but I agree that physically managing a 321 might be a real challenge. At over 100 cm height and 10.5 kg they are a big brute of a thing.

When I was 16 the MD gave me a 321 to "add depth" to the tuba section and I remember thinking it was challenge to manage both when performing and transporting it. As a result I hardly every played it preferring to stick with something a little more nimble.

[olaness]

The rotors vs pistons argument that came earlier in the thread is certainly a valid one, there is a big difference in playing them and therefore it would probably be beneficial to stay with one type. Although it is not terribly difficult to switch between the two, it would be another thing to think of and learn, when it sounds like him and his teacher have got a few things to go through as it is.

When it comes to front action vs top action, there is no real difference beyond the difference that would be caused by playing different models of tube. HOWEVER: thee is a big ergonomic difference between the two, and I have seen a frightening amount of problems with the Subscapularis (one of the main muscles connecting the shoulder to the spine, runs behind the shoulder blade) among people who play top action tubas and are serious enough to spend a good amount of time behind the instrument. Just a note of caution (said with a small amount of pain in the shoulder)...

Ola

[mcfolks]

PM sent re: a King 2341 Satin Silver for sale with both hard and soft cases!

[Michael Bush]

My wife and I have sometimes wrapped a picture or a note promising the item that one of our children will receive once he or she has a chance to weigh in on which one in particular would be best. We set a maximum price, then let them choose.

For me, if someone whose feelings I did not want to hurt gave me a Yamaha 321, I would be in a mess. I would be looking for a buyer if not for their feelings because for me it is a very gawky and uncomfortable horn. I would think that at his age and size the King would be wonderful. But these are not easy judgements for a young person to make without sitting down with the tuba in his lap. While it is more fun to see him unwrap the horn itself, his experience will be better in the long run if he can try a couple or three possibilities himself.

EDIT: fixing the mess that comes from typing on an ipod...

[swillafew]

After reading all this, I recommend blowing on that Jupiter for as long you wish. Do not rush to buy another horn, rather wring every dime's worth out of the one you already have. After doing so, the larger horn will be a joy.

Horns like the Yamaha and Holton are seldom purchased by the end user, they are built to withstand multiple users for many years in an institution. They were never meant for squeezing into automobiles.

The King or the Meinl Weston probably have a strong resale, and solid value is what you want.

[toobagrowl]

In the east is Dillons (NJ) and Tuba Exchange (SC)

The Tuba Exchange is located in Durham, North Carolina; not South Carolina.

I agree with the others here that the King 2341 is a very good all-around BBb tuba - good build, nice round sound, great intonation and very good ergonomics.

[SousaSaver]

...it should also be noted that the older Kings are built like tanks. They are super durable. Even the most careful of us have accidents.

I had a friend in college walking across the stage to warm up before a concert that was 30 minutes away. He got half way across the stage, slipped and dropped him brand new VMI BBb Tuba. Bent the bell a little, but everything was OK. Poor guy. No one should have to ever witness that. So sad...

[TubaHeavy]

Try to see if you can get a king 2341. Its a excellent BBb horn in my opinion.

I'm a high school student, just to let you know.

Thanks for your suggestion. What types of valves did your school tubas have in middle school and now high school? Just curious.

I used the king 2341 in middle school, those were front action piston valves. I now use a rotary tuba (St.Petersburg 202N, which i don't recommend buying) in high school. 99% of the time the type of valves are all preference. i prefer piston valves, but i know some people who like rotary better.

[The Big Ben]

A few years ago, new Kings came with the proviso, "They are OK if checked and sold by a reputable dealer" because of occasional quality control problems. Is this still the case today?

[iiipopes]

I think that has been sorted out. Of course, we're talking used in this thread. And with all the reputable shops who have folks who contribute to this forum, why would anyone purchase a new or used tuba from anybody but one them, because they will make sure, regardless of make, model or age, that it is in good stead. But it brings up a good point. If possible, just like a used car, if you see what looks like a good used deal, get permission to take it to a good tech to check it out to make sure it's road worthy.

[tubistsmom]

Thanks everyone for your feedback. I'm going to get a chance to see the King 2341 in person. Sloan has been gracious enough to offer us the chance to try it out.

I'm find with buying new or used and either way, will take the advice from several here to get someone to check it out. The local instrument store (Art's Music Shop) gave me a 14-day "try-out" period on the 3/4 Jupiter I bought there two years ago and I'd make sure that is still the case should I have them order a new one for me.

[scottw]

Thanks everyone for your feedback. I'm going to get a chance to see the King 2341 in person. Sloan has been gracious enough to offer us the chance to try it out.

I'm find with buying new or used and either way, will take the advice from several here to get someone to check it out. The local instrument store (Art's Music Shop) gave me a 14-day "try-out" period on the 3/4 Jupiter I bought there two years ago and I'd make sure that is still the case should I have them order a new one for me.

As is the norm with most of the tuba-specific shops discussed here, if you are going to buy a horn blind, why don't you deal with our own and at least have them pre-select a good one? Your local shop can order a new one, but I doubt they will have someone play-test until they find a good one; there are always going to be "dogs", even among the top brands and models. Take advantage of this service if your boy is not going to blow several first. JMHO