Couturier "conical bore"

[bort]

Neato.

Must've been tuned at the factory.

[Walter Webb]

Bloke: what has been your assessment of Couturier horns in the past? They made a line of really interesting horns, including saxophones, that many people claim to be great. This tuba is conical from beginning to end, right? They could have made it with matching slides and tubes (smaller in, larger out) that could be pulled, but it's all soldered together, collecting crud in the tubes. At least there are spit valves. How does one tune it if there are no slides?
Walter

[windshieldbug]

Bloke: what has been your assessment of Couturier horns in the past? They made a line of really interesting horns, including saxophones, that many people claim to be great. This tuba is conical from beginning to end, right? They could have made it with matching slides and tubes (smaller in, larger out) that could be pulled, but it's all soldered together, collecting crud in the tubes. At least there are spit valves. How does one tune it if there are no slides?
Walter

Alright, I'm no bloke, but horns were built both with slides and without. First, York made both types to Couturier's 1913 patent (the slides were for Low and High Pitch conversions), but Couturier wanted to build them himself. So he did. He started with no-slide cornets, figuring any part with a slide meant less bore that was actually conical. He even kept the tuning slides to a minimum, supplying 3 of increasing lengths with each horn (instead of one long one). Eventually the company was sold to Lyon & Healy after Courturier's eyesight failed which, bowing to the issues you mentioned, just made horns with increasing bores, but with valve slides.

The no-valve-slide horns have a somewhat inconsistent tone quality, since all note adjustment is done entirely with the chops, so the sound can suffer a little if you have to make the pitch fit the horn and not the other-way-round.

[Donn]

Maybe I'm missing something here. Given a fairly regular conical shape in the main `bugle', and a valve that adds a length of tubing at some point in that bugle, the entry and exit of that length of valve tubing would have to be nearly the same, right? That is, they would be the width of that location in the bugle defined by the valve. I don't see how valve tubing could be tapered in any sensible way.

Interesting wrap, after the first couple bows it gets pretty tight.

[UDELBR]

The inner bows look huge! I wonder how the tuning is on open tones...

[windshieldbug]

Maybe I'm missing something here. Given a fairly regular conical shape in the main `bugle', and a valve that adds a length of tubing at some point in that bugle, the entry and exit of that length of valve tubing would have to be nearly the same, right? That is, they would be the width of that location in the bugle defined by the valve. I don't see how valve tubing could be tapered in any sensible way.

Nobody claimed that it was sensible...

The bore gets slightly bigger through each valve... a short entrance and exit when up, a WHOLE lot more gradually when depressed.

It works that way on a conventional horn, too... when one uses the valves, the ratio of the over-all bore changes a whole lot to more cylindrical tubing. The big expansion takes place AFTER the valves.

[windshieldbug]

I never noticed any "conical" bore in the valve loops.

On the horns with valve slides, each valve loop is a dual bore, getting increasingly larger from mouthpipe to bell. The first 2 slides are both smaller than the smallest last slide (so it's easy to see that way). Ain't much, but it's there.

[Walter Webb]

As this eBay auction ticks down to 5 days left, does anyone really know anything about the character of an EA Couturier tuba like this one? I love the huge bell, the honkin' large and fatness of the loops, but can't make diddley of the valve loops, and it is, after all, only 3 valves. That said, it is a strange creature designed by Ernst Couturier, who was obsessed with the Conical Bore in every possible application, even trombone slides. What!!!?? How could a trombone slide be conical, you ask? Go here and just try and reckon what the heck: http://www.rugs-n-relics.com/Brass/trom ... r-Tbn.html" target="_blank

Ernst was a buddy and business partner of JW York back in the day, until he had a business divorce. He made some very good saxophones that sing in a modern way, despite their early 20s ergonomics, and a line of cornets that are treasured by aficionados. But tubas are a strange and limited production creature, as usual, and the bottom line of their evaluation is lost to the sands of time.... unless somebody steps up and says, "I have played several, and they are........." Roll the freaky dice, and bid this odd puppy up to whatever you think your perverse fascination will allow, until your wife slaps your face.

Here's another example of Ernst's design: http://www.rugs-n-relics.com/Brass/tuba ... -Tuba.html" target="_blank

[Lew]

I have seen many more of his instruments in the smaller brass, even euphoniums, but not very many tubas. I agree that this is an experiment that just didn't work. Still if someone has an interest in owning examples of some of the more unusual tuba designs then this is a relatively inexpensive piece to pick up. I just wouldn't buy it expecting it to be played regularly.

[J.c. Sherman]

I've played one of the front-action Euphs (main tuning only), and it was a very nice sounding instrument, the conical profile of which allowed for considerablly freer tuning adjustment in the chops... but very little adjustment was necessary. Very nice if somewhat atypical sound.

Too long ago to remember who, but I remember conversing with an owner of one of the Ebs - his experience was similar and the sound was very nice.

Chopping up a BBb Couturier would be a crim against humanity - there are very, very few of these around. I'd play it as is or preserve it!

J.c.S.

[bort]

Dang...ended over $900...?

[Walter Webb]

I bid $610, but came up wayyyy short. I'm relieved, actually, now that my senses have returned.