Midwest Tubas

[Cameron Gates]

There were some interesting tubas at Midwest this year. I know some of them have been mentioned in individual threads below, maybe a combined thread would be good. It would be good to hear some opinions on BBb and F tubas seen at the clinic. I only played CC's (and the one BBb monster from Miraphone) and feel now that I should have branched out.

Well, here is one persons observations about some of the CC's. By Manufacturer (or at least booth):

Miraphone:

I finally got to play a 1293. Finally. I was impressed. I always liked the 129x tubas and this one is the star of the fleet IMO. Very responsive with an effortless low end. This has got to be one of the best mid-sized do it all tubas there is IMO. However.......that Bruckner they had there was a super instrument. I played on a Bruckner about a year ago and was sort of "meh" about the horn. Not this one. I was very impressed at how the horn vibrated with the smallest amount of air yet held together very well with a lot of air. Bruckner is a real winner.

Also at Miraphone they had a super nice 188 that played itself and of course that monster BBb project (I don't know the model number). The BBb was a fun horn. It would be nice to see how it sounds in a performance space.

Meinl Weston:

The new 3450 was very intersting. It has the logical 5th valve AFTER main tuning slide design like the 6450/Yorkbrunner/Nirschl......It is maybe a little smaller than a HB 20 (the one with the same configuration) but seemed to put out a great amount of usable bass sound without getting ratty. It reminded me of a CB50 on steriods. I have a feeling that the 2145 sales might take a huge hit with this thing around.

Also, I really liked the production 6450 better than the handmade. I do not know if it was something I ate for breakfast or what, but if I had my choice, I would have picked the production model. In fact, If I had won the lottery that morning I would have bought it on the spot. What a great horn.

Rotary Thor.......hmmmmm........nice horn. I don't know what I would do with it but it would be fun to have around. The one thing that stood out about that horn to me was the short valve stroke. Very HB2-esque and quite unlike the standard Miraphone throw. I would have to say that this horn just might be a step up from the piston model all the way around. Your milage may vary.

Tuba Exchange:

I was shocked at the playability and smooth function of the St. Pete's. The new bigger bell BBb was a joy to play (as was the older smaller bell version) and the CC was super solid. If you can get past the nickel plating and have a limited budget I would say that these are great choices. All I can say is wow.

The G&P Kalison thingy was fun to play. I like the revised leadpipe that these folks came up with (the horn no longer has the main tuning slide in the leadpipe and it enters the 1st valve, not the 4th) yet it still can crank like an old Kalison. I would like an hour with that horn in a quiet room.

Now for.....drum roll please......Adams.

It appears that, as of now, this company is sticking with using only the HB21 tooling and that is all. This horn is a (in their words) "handmade" instrument. Reality says that it is a lighter HB21 that has a shorter 3rd valve tubing section and hipper bracing. At $13500 it is, IMO, cheaper than what a handmade Hirsbrunner would have been. If I had unlimited money and did not need to attempt to produce a bass sound in a large band I would buy this horn. It vibrates more than any horn I have ever played, but that led me to believe that the end product might not be all that great. It did not have a distinctive sound. It was not effortless. It WAS cool looking and it was fun to play such a shaker of a horn. It was kinda like hugging a giant vibrating Elmo doll with a fresh set of batteries. In the end I think it does nothing new. So I'll give it a "meh".

And lastly, what on earth is up with the Besson/Nirschl/Gemstone/Trapped Chilean Miners generio-phone's valves???? So they fix the leadpipe angle yet decide to spread the pistons to make the horn equally hard to play???? There is no way my delicate princess-like hand could deal with that. Wow.

Rant complete. Hope this did not help anyone.

[jonesbrass]

Thanks, Cameron. Always good to know what the latest developments are. It will be interesting to see what happens with Adams.

[Cameron Gates]

It is a medium CC. Not near the 2000 or 2001 in size. Kinda like a redone D. Smith.

I think the price was up there with the Meinl's and Mira's. I do not know what the "street" price would be. That is one crowded corner of the tuba market (piston 4/4 CC silver thingies).

Kalison was always a bit of a bargain when compared to the other new horns. I don't think this one will have quite the same type of discount, but who knows?

**EDIT** - The valves on this thing are faaaaaantastic.

**EDIT #2** - CK, thanks for the words about God's team. Please, please, please beat the leghumpers in the Holiday Bowl. I'm talking a beatdown of biblical proportions. 97-0 is not going to be enough. I want them to fold the tent on their program come 2011 and focus on women's rowing.

[Bob Kolada]

Are we making this the Midwest thread?

Horns I liked-
Miraphone piston F- I can neither say nor accurately type the name of it so I won't bother. What a horn! Big fat sound, fantastic low range, good intonation,... I could feel the horn vibrate on low C, B, and Bb. Super clear sound throughout the range. This horn passed my (probably rather annoying) Prokofiev test (E, G, E, G) with flying colors. I found myself using the long 4th valve slide a lot and playing it mostly as a 4 valve horn. It does tend to lean a bit to the left when I played it.
Miraphone 6/4 Bb- Gigantic horn, looks like 2 191's put together. Compared to the 1291 Bb there (no 191 there) it sounded a bit more like a super big 186 than a bigger 191. Lots of presence, good low range, great fake low B (for those who don't want the 5 valve version). Much better C and B below the staff than the big MW Bb's. The Miraphone guys laughed and said it looked like a regular tuba when I held it. The 1291 Bb, as usual, rocked. I had actually planned on only playing a clone 1291 but the Miraphones I played were so good I couldn't bring myself to try the clone. The 1291 weighs more than the 6/4. I didn't play the rotary Fafner, but this Miraphone is better than the piston Fafner. The leadpipe could maybe wrap around a bit more, this is too big of a horn to hold at an angle.
Willson compact Eb- I felt chills when playing the bigger one, but the small "fattie" model was the one I kept coming back to. Super playable, great sound, cool retro-American-tuba looks (to me anyways), great ergonomics, super friggin heavy,... The low range seemed a bit easier than on the bigger Eb. I didn't play the big F or whatever contrabass they had there. I do remember the small F from last year as also being a wonderful horn.
King 2280- I've never played one before and have always been a 321 fan, but this is a fantastic horn. Big fat sound, the best low range out of any euph there, huge pedal range, lightweight (every other euph felt like a dump truck compared to it),... The 3rd valve trigger is a bit awkward for me; I think I'd prefer a different placement. The Miraphone euphs were nice (and had the best low range of the comp euphs) and the Kanstul euph was incredibly responsive in the mid range, but I think the 2280 was the best euph there. Several other euphs had a weird feel around low Gb-ish.
Jupiter Thayer bass trombone- Really nice horn! I also played it last year. THIS is the Thayer horn for big band (though I did play a very lightweight Eddie months ago that rocked). Quick valves, very responsive, great sound, THE edge monster of all the bass trombones there even with the contra mp that is my default bass mp. Low Bb with both valves was insane.
MW 2141 and PT 22P- Wonderful horns with a great full, big sound. I can't work around the valve angle and the horns really lean to the left; else I would have had one long ago.
St. Pete Eb- Really nice horn with a great sound. Low range is fine, probably somewhere between the Miraphone Star and Star Light. Feels slightly less solid than the other horns but not overly so. Super horn for the price.
Kanstul contrabass trombone- The beast. Played just like mine except this one was super snappy, just like a bass trombone down a 4th. It was fun trying to play jazz on it and then watching Steve F. -actually- play jazz on it... The Kanstul guys took a few pictures of me playing it and one with me holding it next to a small tenor.
Kanstul F- There were a few of them there. The valve angle and 1st slide setup have been changed from the pictures of the first ones. Great little horns! Solid low range, fat pedal range, very consistent sound, great intonation,... 3rd and 4th slides are very long so you can do pitch bends OR pull both out most of the way and play pedal F with all 5 valves. You could probably work out the RVW run to include this note. I still like the Yamaha 621 but this is the best small F out there.
King 2341 vs. Kanstul Bb- Both played really well and, to me, quite similarly. The Kanstul is a bit more responsive. Classic horns that both beat the snot out of the 5xJ horns.
Besson 955 (the small baritone)- This was really awkward for me to hold but it had a really nice, clear sound. However, the main reason I mention it is that it had the absolute best valves I have ever played on. They felt a little gummy but still were approximately 4x faster than my fingers. I was able to do crazy things I've never dreamed about, like trilling between F and the C below it. Wild!!
Courtois Hagmann bass trombone- Another great bass, very responsive and you can scare small children in the low range. It is heavy though!
MW travel tuba- Much, MUCH better than one I played last year! Very nice sound, great low range til about low A, not really any false tones to speak of, surprisingly big sound, very awkward to hold. I wish it had been trumpet shaped as it's not that heavy and would be more comfortable for me. This -could- work in brass quintet but I wouldn't try it in big band or a large ensemble. I liked other horns more but it is weird enough that it is worth mentioning.

The Miraphone piston F tuba and King 2280 (the rep said a front action version is a possibility- sweet!) could cover all my conical low brass needs for the rest of my life. Both play bigger than they look and have fantastic low ranges. If I had to pick one, the Kanstul F is nicely in the middle.
The Miraphone piston F and a 1291 Bb would be an absolutely fantastic pair of horns; likewise a 191 or even the 6/4 and a 653.

Things I wished had been there- Miraphone contrabass trombone, Yamaha 822 F (would have really liked to compare it to the Miraphone), any alto trombone or cimbasso, Cerveny 653 F, the Jupiter Sheridan Eb (rep said an F is in planning stages after the Eb comes out), Marty Erickson,...

I wish I had brought my King Eb for the Kanstul guys to compare to the Kanstul F. Not to act like I have a $600 horn that's worth $8000 but this thing plays! though I wish it sounded a bit more like the small Conn I used to have (the King is a bit thicker, that Conn was so clear!).
Even though I never play euphonium anymore, I still might have to get a 2280.

Interesting sonic experience- I think I heard someone playing the bass sax from the other side of the hall, and it still sounded huge.


I was able to meet Cameron, Lee Stofer, Steve Ferguson, Robert Carpenter, Matt Walker from Greenhoe, Dave Fedderly, and probably another person or 2 I've forgotten (sorry!!)- all super people.

For out of town people- next year don't bother paying the insane prices for food and instead go outside and 200 feet away to the Burger King.

[Tom Holtz]

The new MW 3450, the new G&P CC, and the Kanstul CC (based on the York monster Eb bell) are all compact 4/4 tubas that play easy and aren't trying to pretend to be any bigger. All of a sudden, there's a nice crowded market for regular-sized tubas. About #@$%ing time.

[bort]

Anyone spend some good time on the Kanstul CC?

[Walter Webb]

Did anyone check out the Kanstul Eb??

[Tom Holtz]

I like the Kanstul CC, and I like their 4p1r front-action Eb. The 4-upright Eb is a little too old school (stuffy, hard-to-manage low register) for me. Haven't spent much time on either one, hope to see them at Ft. Myer in January. The CC really reminds me of the Getzen G50. Same idea as the G50, different execution, great results.

[arminhachmer]

Midwest? what when and where is it?

Ft.Myers is near me. What , where and when in January
is it ?



Armin in Naples, FL.
Need to identify the next tuba.

[Rick Denney]

Ft.Myers is near me. What , where and when in January
is it ?

That would be Fort Myer, which is adjacent to Arlington National Cemetery and the Pentagon, and is the home of the U.S. Army Band. Conference is the last full weekend in January, every year. Sorry, you'll have to drive up from Florida. But it will be worth it.

Rick "Fort Myer the fort, not Ft. Myers the town" Denney

[bort]

Also... anything particularly interesting to report on the medium-to-large rotary CC tuba front? Apart from the Bruckner, that is...

Thanks!

[Cameron Gates]

Also... anything particularly interesting to report on the medium-to-large rotary CC tuba front? Apart from the Bruckner, that is...

Thanks!

The rotary Thor was very fun to play. It would be nice to try it in an ensemble.

The 188 on display was to die for. I used to have one of those horns and really wish I still had it.

Custom had the usual line up. I can't remember if it was a -20 or a -4, but there was a 4/4 rotor horn that was very nice.

Once, just once, I would like to go to that big european music fair and play all the oddball european stuff. Could you imagine what a kick it would be to go up and down the Rudy and Alexander line? That would be fun.

[bort]

Great, thanks! Out of curiosity, was that 188 yellow or gold brass?

[Cameron Gates]

Once, just once, I would like to go to that big european music fair and play all the oddball european stuff. Could you imagine what a kick it would be to go up and down the Rudy and Alexander line? That would be fun.

I'm thinking 2013...

You drive, I'll chip in for 1/2 the gas. I'll also have the old lady wash your car when we get back.

Can I bring my dog?

BTW, I snore.