Wait how long for a YamaYork? WRONG!

[Tom]

I think most of that is purely reputation they had from around the 20's...I personally work with a piano repairman who literally got better than the area market wanted. Skill=more knowledge of what can be done=more time able to be involved=more money to be charged. People did not want to pay him what he really was worth for his piano skills...

A technician that was too good for his market? Ummm..ok..it sounds to me more like his prices were not competitive for the services that his customers wanted and that he didn't get much buy-in from his customers to the idea that his other procedures should be done just because he had the "skill" and "time" to do them.

anyways, he finds the modern Steinway's are crap, and are over-hyped, simply due to reputation.

Modern Steinway pianos are crap? Right...

Look, I work for a "major" symphony orchestra. I present the finest and most famous pianists in the world with my orchestra. None of these people were playing Steinway pianos in the 1920s (the reference date you mentioned), but let me tell you...these people could be playing any piano they wanted and are playing Steinways today by choice...not because the Steinway pianos built 90 years ago were good. Only once in 25 years has a pianist requested a piano other than a Steinway (a Yamaha, actually).

The ones from Hamburg Germany, apparently are very good, but unable to be purchased here in the US.

Hamburg Steinway pianos are exceptionally fine pianos and play and sound significantly different than American Steinways. I imagine that you've never seen/heard/played one...right? Your statement about the availability of Hamburg Steinways in the US is not true. Just because they don't show up when you google Steinway pianos doesn't mean you can't get them. These are not the kind of pianos that you find at your local "piano warehouse." There are many more in the United States than you think and are always a handful of them available on the used market each year. Additionally, there are plenty of Steinway piano dealers that would be happy to import a Hamburg Steinway for you (they can order from either factory). I get calls, emails, and letters all time time from people/dealers/brokers with Hamburg Steinways they want to sell me...they're out there and available to people in the US. No BS.

His thought on best piano? Sure, Bösendorfer is great, but as far as best one in what he's seen, a Fazioli is the best piano currently made...From what has been said, a Petrof would be a better one and it's less expensive than a Steinway...

Fazioli? Sure they're exotic, expensive, and "flashy" with all of their embelishments. Yes, they claim to build the largest piano in the world, but really? The best piano currently made? Based on what? If I wheeled a Fazioli out as my artist piano, I'm absolutely 100% sure that I'd have quite a few artists refuse to play it. How many people in the world have even seen a Fazioli, much less played one?

Petrof? Better than a Steinway and less expensive? Yes, most are less expensive than "comparable" Steinway models, but few would throw the blanket staement out there that they are "better." Petrof's are a bit difficult to come by in the US, so the fact that your piano tech suggests these hints that perhaps he is a Petrof dealer or is affiliated with a shop that is. Again, I would have artists refuse to perform if I offered them a Petrof over a Steinway.

Seriously, in the professional realm, it's Steinway followed distantly by Bosendorfer and then by Yamaha based on what soloists demand. Beyond that it is a long list of "also rans" that woud likely place Petrof and Fazioli near the bottom.

[The Big Ben]

Speaking of piano repair techs, could you fellas do to help out these guys?
(It's a Boesendorfer)
Step One:

Step Two

Step Three:


Needless to say, it was *not* ready for the recital that night...

Here's the whole story:
http://www.company7.com/bosendorfer/apr ... 5drop.html

Jeff "To bring this full circle, we need a picture of a Yamayork that has been driven over by a bus" Benedict

[Wyvern]

I'd take a German made B&S... over those horns any day...

I would not exchange my Neptune for one of these YamaYorks...never!

On a more serious note, these YamaYorks are obviously very good grand orchestral tubas, but are I am sure not to everyone's taste, so envy should not rule. If production is very limited and particularly if sold at a loss as a promotional product, then it is up to Yamaha as a private company to decide to who they sell.

Maybe they offered to Rick Denney thinking he would publish scientific analysis to support their tuba being the best?

[bigbob]

AHHHH pianos what happened to the tuba's? does that mean I can talk about accordions??? I know quite a bit about those and they even have a Bass cord side<S>.. but I never saw one that was 35000.00 and this is one with MIDI.. speakers and custom straps<s>Now again how can someone loose money on a 35.000.00 horn??? when there are hand made horns at a lot lower price the Baer is hand made and 25000 or "less" and you don't need permission to buy it<s>also do any of these horns come on the market used?? if so do they need permission to sell it to someone of less talent???<s>..... Just curious...........................BB

[Rick Denney]

Maybe they offered to Rick Denney thinking he would publish scientific analysis to support their tuba being the best?

That's where the derangement comes in.

Rick "not thinking his arm-waving would have any effect on the likely market for such an instrument" Denney

[Rick Denney]

...Again, I would have artists refuse to perform if I offered them a Petrof over a Steinway.

Of course, any Steinway artist would be obligated to refuse to perform on a non-Steinway, no matter what their opinion of it. I'm not sure this assertion, even if true (and it's a hypothetical statement), bears on the relative merit of the instruments.

I do know one case where the Steinway owned by the San Antonio Symphony was considered unsuitable by an artist (I recall that it was Vladimir Ashkenazy). The call went out to the Symphony League, and one of the rich ladies of that organization made her Bosendorfer Imperial available. That piano was moved to the symphony hall that day, and the artist not only performed on it, but told the story and publicly thanked the woman during the concert (which was probably all the compensation she needed).

But Ashkenazy was wide-ranging in his loyalties. He also offered to buy the Mason and Hamlin BB owned by Ansel Adams when he played at Adams's house for a private concert a couple of years before Adams died. Adams refused (as he had refused many other such offers). Adams was trained originally as a concert pianist and had many world-class pianist friends.

Rick "who has never heard a Steinway roar the way a big Bosendorfer can in the right hands" Denney

[MartyNeilan]

His thought on best piano? Sure, Bösendorfer is great, but as far as best one in what he's seen, a Fazioli is the best piano currently made..

[Alex C]

There are a number of facts here that aren't accurate.
There's no AFM credit union that I know of, and I've been a member for over 18 years. There is an AFM credit card available, but it's not particularly great terms.

Our local has a fine credit union and several of my friends use it for all of their banking needs. I know that other locals also have credit unions. I stand by the other statements, not presented as researched data on all orchestras but as general information for a respondent to this thread.

I am shocked to learn that universities do not receive federal funds. Shocked.

I have learned that bantering back and forth with someone who writes confrontationally is not a productive use of my time. Or anybody's time for that matter.

[glangfur]

Sorry Alex, I don't mean to be confrontational - really not my style. Just trying to get facts straight.

Locals having credit unions is not the same thing as an AFM credit union - and this is actually one of the problems with the musicians' union. We are not a national union but a federation of local unions, and I think it's quite possible that this diminishes the power of what we can do. If there was a national credit union it would probably be much better and stronger than the local credit unions that are available, and I would probably be a member. Furthermore, if the AFM did more things on a national level we'd probably have more power over things like the Rockettes appearing in Boston with pre-recorded music.

Also, I'm sure most universities receive federal funding at some level, but that's not at all the same thing as being "federally funded."

[tubaguy9]

I think most of that is purely reputation they had from around the 20's...I personally work with a piano repairman who literally got better than the area market wanted. Skill=more knowledge of what can be done=more time able to be involved=more money to be charged. People did not want to pay him what he really was worth for his piano skills...

A technician that was too good for his market? Ummm..ok..it sounds to me more like his prices were not competitive for the services that his customers wanted and that he didn't get much buy-in from his customers to the idea that his other procedures should be done just because he had the "skill" and "time" to do them.

What he was able to do made a difference to him but not to his customers. Example, cryogenic freezing of instruments. There have been studies with pros that could not tell a difference between the frozen horn and the un-frozen horn. He was able to do such small tweaks that some of his competitors claimed that what he was doing hurt the piano, but he could really tell a positive difference in it. Such small differences and had such high standards for what he did, that he basically ran himself out of business. People where we are just want it to play. Nothing more. They don't want it to play well, just for it to play. If solders aren't right, they don't care. That's a large part of the reason he didn't do well with the market here.

As far as the piano accident that BigBen posted...I don't know if he could fix it...He probably could but it would be more money than they might want to spend...biggest mistake they might have had is having the piano perpendicular to the back of the truck rather than parallel...but that would likely be difficult on a 9 footer...a lot of piano moving is communication, communication, communication...

There's a church here in town that has a 9 ft. Steinway, bought not too long ago, and apparently, there's already something wrong with the hammers...

[JHardisk]

when there are hand made horns at a lot lower price the Baer is hand made and 25000 or "less" and you don't need permission to buy

Bob,

I've got to correct you... I own a MW handmade 6450/2... And you'd better believe that I needed permission to buy it...

My wife's permission!

[bigbob]

I'm sorry ...you always have to check with the boss first<S>..BB

[normrowe]

Additionally, professional players usually teach at a nearby university and those salaries are negotiated. I haven't heard of university teachers offering or accepting pay cuts but the universities are federally financed. Make that another 10-20k.

And at least some teach privately aside from a college/university situation. I took lessons from Roger Bobo in his house in Pasadena (180-mile round trip from Santa Barbara where I was principal tuba in the SB Symphony).

[Mark]

I plan to build my own CSO York copy from sheet tin and corrugated cardboard. I got the plans online for FREE and it will only cost me about $7 and some time. The plans guarantee it will look and play just like the original. However, they are based on the lesser of the two horns. But I am thinking that some zip ties and underwear elastic ought to help make up the difference. Oh, and lots of duct tape. Can't forget the duct tape. That will give it that 1930s satin finish that we all love so much. The only thing I need to make the horn complete and accurate (according to these plans) is a Flux Capacitor that is hidden behind the piston set.

Well, a true musical instrument craftsman would know that you should use gaffer's tape instead of duct tape.

[SousaSaver]

Fellas, please. The technical term for gaffers tape is "case repair tape."

[Mark]

No way, dude! Gaffer's tape is black. I want a satin silver look and not a stealth look! HAHAHA!!! (Actually, I have some "silver" gaffer's tape. I like duct tape better. Red Green does not work in gaffer's tape. His artistry lies in the realm of duct tape, and that is good enough for me.)

Red Green is Canadian.

[k001k47]

Someone should take one of these to THE Pawn Stars and get offered $8,000. "You see I gotta make money, and frankly, I just don't see it selling too soon."

[bigbob]

I plan to build my own CSO York copy from sheet tin and corrugated cardboard. I got the plans online for FREE and it will only cost me about $7 and some time. The plans guarantee it will look and play just like the original. However, they are based on the lesser of the two horns. But I am thinking that some zip ties and underwear elastic ought to help make up the difference. Oh, and lots of duct tape. Can't forget the duct tape. That will give it that 1930s satin finish that we all love so much. The only thing I need to make the horn complete and accurate (according to these plans) is a Flux Capacitor that is hidden behind the piston set.

Well, a true musical instrument craftsman would know that you should use gaffer's tape instead of duct tape.

Hey!! I'm doing one of those at home out of steel rod , bronze and copper<s>BUT!! If you have a way to make a 7.00 CSO then how a bout sending me the diagram so I can join you in your endeavors <S>........................BB

[Steve Marcus]

If someone from, say, the Chicago area (we'll leave the name of the tubist out) simply wanted to try a YCB-826 (if nothing else, to experience first hand/lap/lips/ears what the fuss is all about), where (and when) would one go?

[Rick Denney]

If someone from, say, the Chicago area (we'll leave the name of the tubist out) simply wanted to try a YCB-826 (if nothing else, to experience first hand/lap/lips/ears what the fuss is all about), where (and when) would one go?

My invitation was to Grand Rapids.

Rick "now knowing why Yamaha USA ended up there" Denney