6/4 tuba topic: flat 3rd partial...large upper bow

[tubatom91]

tis already pushed in

[Bob Kolada]

tis already pushed in

Cut that bad boy down!

[Michael Bush]

C3 right above it is also about 20cents flat, those are the only real wild notes on the horn. I

This is what I think of every time this issue of a flat 3rd partial comes up. On my BBb Conn, with all the slides pushed in except #4 out about 1.5", the F under the staff is fine. I might wobble it ten cents either way or even more, but that's me.

But that C! It's as flat as it's possible to be. The tuner isn't sure I'm not aiming for a B if I play it with the first valve. But using the fourth valve it's in tune.

I had a major dent removed from the top bow when I first got this tuba. Maybe I should have waited until I got a better feel for the horn?

[MartyNeilan]

C3 right above it is also about 20cents flat, those are the only real wild notes on the horn. I

This is what I think of every time this issue of a flat 3rd partial comes up. On my BBb Conn, with all the slides pushed in except #4 out about 1.5", the F under the staff is fine. I might wobble it ten cents either way or even more, but that's me.

But that C! It's as flat as it's possible to be. The tuner isn't sure I'm not aiming for a B if I play it with the first valve. But using the fourth valve it's in tune.

I had a major dent removed from the top bow when I first got this tuba. Maybe I should have waited until I got a better feel for the horn?

The pitch in the third, fifth, and sixth partials on my big old German CC rotary horn (my daughter calls it the "fat tuba" and it b-a-r-e-l-y fits in a MW2165 gigbag widthwise) is overall very good. (It is nice not having to worry about pushing up third partial G or pulling down fourth partial C anymore )
But, that D (equivalent of your C) is crazy flat using 1. After a little cutting, 13 puts it right where it needs to be. The 8th partial is a little flat (My high C, your Bb.) HOWEVER, the 9th partial is spot on. I sometimes find it easier to play the upper register on the 9th partial, instead of the 8th partial - basically playing it like a "D" tuba from Ab to high D with Ab being 24 or 123, A 13, Bb 23, B 12, C 1, C#2, and D open. It is not as difficult as it sounds: everything in that range is just fingered one step different to play it off the 9th partial instead of the 8th.

[Michael Bush]

Playing the ninth partial as a substitute for the eighth is not uncommon.

I never thought of it from that perspective. I just thought of it as alternate fingerings. This makes sense of it.

[pwhitaker]

At the risk of appearing to be overly smug I have 3 older 3 valve BBb BATs - Conn 20J, Martin Mammoth and a short stroke Holton (1956, 1938, 1941). All of these horns have almost perfect intonation with the extra large, extra deep mpc's I use on them The only troublesome note is the low 1-2-3 B natural which requires a slight 1" pull on the first valve or a bit of lipping down. The Martin is a little sharp with the main slide all the way in, the others just fine. ... I guess they were tuned at the factory

[tbn.al]

Playing the ninth partial as a substitute for the eighth is not uncommon.

I never put it in that perspective before but that's exactly what I do on my O-99. Since bloke reworked the slide lengths I don't have a single note that is not close enough to lip. Except in certain keys and inversions the 5th partials do require alternate fingerings and the 8th partials are in tune if I substitute the 9th partials for them. I just thought of them as alternate fingerings until this a'ha moment y'all provided. Of course the O-99 is anything but a BAT.

[imperialbari]

Playing the ninth partial as a substitute for the eighth is not uncommon.

I never put it in that perspective before but that's exactly what I do on my O-99. Since bloke reworked the slide lengths I don't have a single note that is not close enough to lip. Except in certain keys and inversions the 5th partials do require alternate fingerings and the 8th partials are in tune if I substitute the 9th partials for them. I just thought of them as alternate fingerings until this a'ha moment y'all provided. Of course the O-99 is anything but a BAT.

Your observations on the 5th partial notes are very valid. If they are thirds in stable tonic chords, they very often work well with standard fingerings. If they are leading notes, my trick is refingering them as 6th partials. The CC population yank in their slides. Basically like trombonists do.

Klaus

[imperialbari]

As I remember it the MW2145/2155/2165 models were fairly new, when I met an MW salesman at the Danish Championships for bands in late 1994. One leaflet for that series reported on the development work done in cooperation with Warren Deck. Some of the work happened by MW sending new part variants to NY, where Warren Deck then mounted them on the prototype he tested. As I remember it, the last part changed was exactly the top bow.

My best Eb bass is a Besson 981, British made in the spring of 1999 (I ordered it in February, took delivery on June 4th, and used it in concert for the first time the next day, which is our Constitution Day) in some ways is a compromised hybrid. All valved brasses are that, but this Eb tuba shares the valve block though the bottom bow with the old 15" New Standard/Imperial, which had a narrow leadpipe with a small receiver. The 981 has a large receiver, fast expanding leadpipe, and has a 19" bell. I bought this model because I had tried a very good sample, and my sample happens to be even better, but the looks...

The 19" bell is close to what is seen on some really big CC or BBb tubas, and then there is this quite modest top bow, which I find looking like being very much too narrow bore compared to the huge throat and flare of the bell. But from bloke’s theory that maybe is the exact reason, why the 3rd partial is not flat at all. And maybe also the reason why the 5th partial notes are quite flat at least with the fairly large mouthpieces that I have used with this tuba.

Klaus

[Bob Kolada]

At the risk of appearing to be overly smug I have 3 older 3 valve BBb BATs - Conn 20J, Martin Mammoth and a short stroke Holton (1956, 1938, 1941).

Sir, we demand pictures! I do remember your picture of the Conn, Holton, and your old Rudy Meinl. I wish I had snagged that looked-like-a-giant-new-2340 Martin that was on here a year or 2 ago. The price just went too high for me, but on the other hand I turned around and bought a contrabass trombone. Figure out how Bob thinks and win a prize!!

[bttmbow]

Bob thinks very well! ... "so, what do I win? Is it a Thein Contrabass trombone?"