Damn Fountains of death

[imperialbari]

However reading this thread reminds me, that TubeNet isn't just about joke.

bloke with his new avatar appears to taken upon him warning the youth off from bestiality!

My reading of:



says: Don't date a Boxer!

Klaus

[sloan]

http://www.boulderbrass.org/pdfs/Tuba%2 ... 20Rome.pdf" target="_blank

MUCH cleaner than my Cherry CD!

OK - I have mastered pages 1 and 4. I'll start work on pages 2-3...tomorrow (and tomorrow, and tomorrow...)

[Chuck Jackson]

OK - I have mastered pages 1 and 4. I'll start work on pages 2-3...tomorrow (and tomorrow, and tomorrow...)

Hah, even with my FD, I play the stuffing out of pages 1 and 4. Glad to know I'm in good company.


Chuck"still gets the sweats when THE section comes up when listening to a recording of the piece"Jackson

[ZNC Dandy]

I think Roman Festivals is more difficult overall. Aside from the Trevi lick not a ton in Fountains to do. Festivals has some wicked counting, and some nasty little technical licks, not to mention the grunt required to support one of the most dense orchestrartions in the repetoire. It is also written for tuba, not cimbasso.Also, you want some fun Respighi check out suite from Belkis; Regina Di Saba No tuba part, 4 trombone parts, but WOW. I have the score for the work, and the 4th trombone is listed as trombone bassa, not sure if that means cimbasso, or not. Check out the Philharmonia/Simon recording of it. Ray Premru on bass trombone. Also Respighi's Sinfonia Drammatica. Respighi was THE master of orchestral colour and orchestration. Not to mention Church Windows of course.

[WoodSheddin]

The more low, singing, loud etudes you practice the easier this excerpt gets. Turn on the tuner and recording device and play Snedecor as loud and beautiful as you can while in tune.

Rinse and repeat for a few weeks/months.

This is a fundamentals issue.

[Chris Smith]

....... Not to mention Church Windows of course.

I love this piece!

[imperialbari]

Wouldn't know the finer details of Italian grammar to tell, but

Fontane Condannate di Morte

has about 2450 returns on Google. Not bad for a wild guess, but of course proving nothing right.

Klaus

[noriegatuba]

Mouthpiece placement might also be good in this excerpt. Tilt "just slightly" inward and down for the low stuff and tilt upward "just a hair" for the higher stuff. Although point taken that the upper notes are in the mid-register. I like to think of it as an excerpt in terms of "flow-ness" that is, grouping sections into phrases in order to comprehend the air of the piece. Hope this helps some.

[Wyvern]

http://www.boulderbrass.org/pdfs/Tuba%2 ... 20Rome.pdf

MUCH cleaner than my Cherry CD!

Just come across this thread researching for forthcoming gig of Fountains and thought this link worth posting again - so much clearer part than on Cherry CD!

I don't want to sound big-headed, but cannot understand all the fuss about Fountains. I have played twice in concert before and did not find so incredibly difficult on my Neptune CC. I guess more difficult in audition situation, but in orchestra the tuba is in octaves with the bass trombone to help cover snatched breaths.

I did consider using my PT-15 F for forthcoming gig to be more faithful to what would have originally been used, but those low F# have swayed me to stick with CC.

Jonathan "who has Bydlo coming up in same gig - nice contrasting tuba parts!"

[Mojo workin']

"who has Bydlo coming up in same gig

You will be able to change a tire with your lips after this concert, Johnathan.

What level of an orchestra is this...community, regional, etc.?

[Wyvern]

What level of an orchestra is this...community, regional, etc.?

It is a good community orchestra I have not played with before, but am friends with the 1st horn who recommended me.

To make things more difficult, it is the day after I return from China, so a good reason to keep my lip in on my travel tuba! Yes, I am practising Fountains on small travel tuba

[UDELBR]

Yes, I am practising Fountains on small travel tuba

We want a YouTube clip!

[Carroll]

However, in all seriousness:

Now sing the part like an opera singer would, except in time and in tune .

Best quote EVER!

Thanks.

[David]

ISSUES OF STYLE:

On the introduction:

If you listen to a recording of The Fountains, you'll realize the intro (3 bars after fig 11, up to fig 12) is 100% percussive. This sort of thing benefits from power and punch, so don't bother with a singing approach. It's nonsensical considering you are mirroring the exact notes of the timpani here. Consider yourself an extension of that instrument. As far as HOW aggressive you should play this, I would say learn this section straight, get the basics of the technical side down, and then decide on how you'll execute it. Remember, that not every orchestra will be enthusiastic about you treating this intro like a series of depth charges, as in the Pokorny CD.

On the quick moving lines:

The quick moving parts with strange rhythmic figures should be spotless for an audition, but considering a few things:

1) Practice this with a bass trombone player. Its line, for most of the excerpt, is a mirror image of the tuba part. Then get some trombones together and run the excerpt to get a sense of where you'll fit in in your immediate section... also, keep in mind:

The trumpets and quick moving lines in the violins/flutes make it difficult/impossible to hear this faster stuff. Also, the sheer amount of commotion going on in the orchestra here obscures much of the entire line at parts (more or less, depending on your recording.) Keep in mind that most people (conductor, rest of the orchestra, audience) will focus on the bass trombone, which has an easier time of cutting through the busy orchestra parts. Keep him in mind when you play. You should be able to play with him so that you sound like a single instrument, for the most part.

On singing and this piece:

I think its a great idea to sing and buss this piece away from tuba. If you approach any piece of music by learning to do these two things befor you even pick up the tuba, you will make yourself a better musician.

But if you've done much work in legato and singing etudes (such as Bordogni or concone etudes, Wesley Jacobs of Encore music put out great versions of these), you'll see that this is not really a piece where you should actually make your tuba sound like it's singing a beautiful legato line. Just take a look at the sheer number of accents (note that there are TWO types) in this piece, the marked dynamic level, and the already mentioned busyness of the orchestra and you'll see what I mean. Like the intro, if merits a percussive approach. BUT consult recordings to see how aggressive you should be. As a general rule, the rest of the piece is not as aggressive as the intro. Starting at fig 12, you are no longer just an extension of the timpani... so don't play like you are. (After fig 13, you are again more of a timpani, though).

IN CLOSING:

Practice by yourself all you want, but remember the end result is knowing how to sound good in the context of the orchestra around you. Play along with the trombones, play along with recordings. Anything to understand how you fit in. You have a great chance of winning the audition if you're playing demonstrates to an audition committee that you have a strong idea of what the rest of the orchestra is doing at the time and what the style of the piece demands of you. Of course, that's assuming you get the basics right first...

THE TECHNICAL SIDE OF THE PIECE

There are three key elements in this piece as I see it, on top of playing in tune and in time.

1) Power and intonation in the low register (fig 11-12)

- bordogni/concone etudes (written for tuba) taken down 1 octave. If you have the trombone edition, take it down 2 octaves
- if you read other clefs, just find any music and take it down a few octaves. There are many trumpet books that can be useful (off the top of my head, Caffarelli 100 studi Melodici helps).
- play in the low register ALOT

- A word on air in the low register.

- Because this piece is so often loud and low, you will find yourself feeling dizzy and hyperventilating once you start to approach playing this piece properly (at least, I did). This is not something to aim for, just an inevitable result of taking in more oxygen than your body can use. It will take many hours of low register playing for your body to get used to this.

2) clean, clear and quick articulation (m 197, m 200)

- To be specific, you can double tongue measure 197 as follows tuh, kuh, tuh, tuh, and the last two sixteenth of m 200 as tuh tuk. Of course, you can also single tongue these.
- In general: playing fast stuff clearly
specific: The Bordogni have lots of really quick and at first bizarre ornamental stuff that is similar to this and can help (if you ignore all slur markings). Also, the Arban's complete method can help with this. See the first 200 pages of the book (Encore puts out a tuba Arban's, which is excellent.) Ignore the slur marks. Choose a sane tempo, and slowly increase it.

3) quick and clear articulation in the low register (fig 13 on)

- see 1
- See the first 200 pages of Arban's down the octave, but be careful to use a sane tempo. Ignoring any written slurs to get the most benefit.
- Also, practice tonging on single low notes (downwards from the low A) in quarter, eighth, sixteenth etc rhythms. Low register clarity is absolutely important in general for the instrument (it is a tuba, after all). And the clearer you can be on you own in the practice room, the more likely you will be distinctly heard (and appreciated) in a group.

I hope breaking it up like that helps...


On equipment

Some notes speak easier on some tubas that others, but as my teacher used to say, do not obsess about equipment. Find a tuba and mouthpiece that works, and then get to work. Do not allow something like “it's okay if it sounds bad there, because my tuba's X range/note is poor” to get in the way of playing your best. Play past it. Ultimately, although it can factor in, audition committees are ultimately not hiring a Nirschl, or a Monette, or a Yamaha. They want the musician, not someone with a deep wallet.

IN CLOSING:

There are always faster ways of learning things, but there are no tricks to dodging hard work. That's what this excerpt needs to sound well. Ultimately, if none of this post makes sense or it all seems like crap, then do something that always works, no matter what the problem: practice.

[gwwilk]

I
- A word on air in the low register.

- Because this piece is so often loud and low, you will find yourself feeling dizzy and hyperventilating once you start to approach playing this piece properly (at least, I did). This is not something to aim for, just an inevitable result of taking in more oxygen than your body can use. It will take many hours of low register playing for your body to get used to this.

Excellent overall post, David, on most of which I'm not qualified to comment. Some clarification of the dizziness and numbness from hyperventilating: the technical term for this state is hypocapnia which means 'low blood carbon dioxide levels'. Since CO2 forms carbonic acid (H2CO3) in the bloodstream and as a weak acid loses one hydrogen ion (an acid radical) a reduction in carbon dioxide leads to fewer hydrogen ions and blood alkalosis. Alkalosis in turn wreaks havoc with nerve conduction, especially small sensory nerves initially. Hence the numbness. When you hyperventilate you blow off carbon dioxide, become alkalotic, and develop the symptoms of such. You are correct in that ones body adapts a bit to this condition with repeated episodes such as occur with loud low tuba playing. We also learn to ignore these symptoms somewhat.

For more reading here is a useful link: http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/301680-overview

[eupher61]

Jerry...
I just have a feeling you've been waiting YEARS for an opportunity to write something like this!

(and, honestly, thanks...it drives home the fact that it isn't really anything to trifle with.)

steve

[gwwilk]

Jerry...
I just have a feeling you've been waiting YEARS for an opportunity to write something like this!

Naw, Steve. It's just something I learned long ago in medical school. Over my years of medical practice dealing mainly with healthy young adults at a university student health center I saw hyperventilating, anxious patients fairly often. Discussing this problem from time to time with patients helped me retain a working knowledge of the underlying pathophysiology.

(and, honestly, thanks...it drives home the fact that it isn't really anything to trifle with.)

steve

Acute hyperventilation is generally a benign condition. Otherwise we would all expire prematurely from trying to play these deadly tubas!