Early Sousaphone At Westpoint around 1861

[sinfonian]

Took this image from the Errol Flynn movie "They Died With Their Boots On". In this scene the southern cadets at Westpoint are leaving to head south before the start of the Civil War. The Commandant of Westpoint tells the band to Play Dixie. Such a forward looking bandmaster to include the Sousaphone over 30 years before it was invented.

[Bob Kolada]

I saw the coolest photo in Virginia of The United States Army Band in 1922. There were 2 tenor saxhorns, 2 Eb basses, 1 Bb bass, 2 helicons, 2 (!) baritone saxophones (1 soprano, 1 alto, 1 tenor), 1 bass saxophone, and a contrabass sarrusaphone. It didn't involve any time travel but I bet it was a hell of a sound.

[iiipopes]

Yes, and at a time when rear-firing horns would have been the standard as well!

[bisontuba]

HI-
Yes, a bad movie prop--the band would have used OTS (Over The Shoulder) horns--the directors went with what was available instead of researching the time period
mark

[Kevin Hendrick]

HI-
Yes, a bad movie prop--the band would have used OTS (Over The Shoulder) horns--the directors went with what was available instead of researching the time period
mark

They could at least have put the bell on backwards ...

[knarfman]

If they were smart enough to equip the band with Sousaphones, why didn't they arm Custer's troopers with M16s (of course, he did leave behind those Gatling guns....)?

[normrowe]

They could at least have put the bell on backwards ...

Actually, the original sousaphone bells pointed up, not front or back. But the OTS horns were definitely the standard during the Civil War years. The bands wanted to be in front of the horses, so they insisted on leading the parades, but the people marching/riding behind them wanted to hear the music, so the OTS horns were developed. It's possible, though, that some of the bands had "normal" instruments for standing (like in the photo) or sitting concerts and OTS ones for marching in parades.

[Kenton]

Only one footnote, the OTS horn was invented before the Civil War, possibly by Dodworth, and certainly introduced by him by 1853.

[Kevin Hendrick]

They could at least have put the bell on backwards ...

Actually, the original sousaphone bells pointed up, not front or back. But the OTS horns were definitely the standard during the Civil War years.

I know -- that was an attempt at humor (thus the ). If I remember correctly, even the raincatchers weren't around until the 1890s, so would have been period-incorrect as well. My thought was that, with the bell on backwards, it would at least be pointing in the same direction as the OTS horns.

[GC]

Over the shoulder horns were common during the war, but a lot of bands didn't use them because they didn't want them or couldn't afford them. Some bands had two sets of horns, one for parades (OTS) and one for concerts (standard).

I've gotten spoiled with horns that can rest on the lap or a chair. Trying to play a OTS Eb bass was one of the most uncomfortable things I've ever done. Then again, I've never tried playing a corps-style euphonium . . .

[Steven Noel]

Not only the sousaphone , but the bass drum should be rope tension and they did have the metal bell lyras then either , as well as some of the other newer style brass instruments they used in this film .

[David Richoux]

There was some nice footage of an early 1900s brass band in the recent PBS Panama Canal documentary - lots of down-pointing Mells, alto horns and a variety of tubas and helicons.
(no sound, obviously

[imperialbari]

For the true movie freaks it might be possible to trace which army band was hired as extras and then trace their inventory during the shooting period.

Klaus