jpeg of a Donatelli Conn

Alex C · Post by **Alex C** » Sat Jan 08, 2005 12:16 pm

I am in need of a picture of a Donatelli Conn tuba. Does anyone have a jpeg they would email me?

Thanks.

Gongadin · Post by **Gongadin** » Sat Jan 08, 2005 1:36 pm

with Donatelli in one of the Arnold Jacobs books, but as far as a Conn goes, I know there was someone on this Forum who had played both of Donatelli's Conns.....wish I could remember who it was! He said he offered a lot of money for one, and was turned down, and he said the other one played in an unsatisfactory manner and he felt the asking price of around 3K was unwarranted. Shows how horns can vary...

Daniel C. Oberloh · Post by **Daniel C. Oberloh** » Sat Jan 08, 2005 5:05 pm

If you are referring to the photograph that has "To my friend Arnold Jacobs" written on it, That is not a Conn but is actually a York. The valve section is a dead give away.

Daniel C. Oberloh

Oberloh Woodwind and Brass Works
Saving the world, one horn at a time...

Leland · Post by **Leland** » Sat Jan 08, 2005 9:06 pm

PhilW. wrote:Plus, why would he take a picture of himself with a horn that he had problems playing with and sold shortly after buying?

Maybe it was to be used on a For Sale ad...

Daniel C. Oberloh · Post by **Daniel C. Oberloh** » Sat Jan 08, 2005 9:21 pm

Yes, I am sure. Like I said, the valves are a dead give away. The horn was new then and what better time to get your pro snapshot done then with a new instrument that was free of dents. He did sell the horn to Mr. Jacobs and this was a pictuer that I assume was a gift to Mr. Jacobs so what better then with the horn the student got from his teacher and friend. Just a thought.

York, Conn, King, Martin, Buescher... All did satin silver plate . It was comon and the most popular finish back then or so it would seem.

Best regards,

Daniel C. Oberloh
Oberloh Woodwind and Brass Works
Seattle, WA
206.241.5767
www.oberloh.com

Alex C · Post by **Alex C** » Sat Jan 08, 2005 9:55 pm

I'm not clear on this. Is that a Donatelli Conn in the Jacobs book?

Daniel C. Oberloh · Post by **Daniel C. Oberloh** » Sun Jan 09, 2005 4:51 am

I am not sure what a Donatelli Conn is but No, it is a York. Conn never built that valve configuration and the brace flanges also tell me it is a York. Trust me.

Daniel C. Oberloh

Alex C · Post by **Alex C** » Sun Jan 09, 2005 8:42 am

I'm not sure what a Donatelli Conn is either. My first teacher was a Bell student who had a large Conn tuba (not a 3X or 2X config) which he said was a Donatelli. I don't remember the exact configuration, I was Y&S.

I played with someone this week who is a long time collector; he said that my instrument was a Donatelli. It isn't marked on the bell. The SN only tells me that the instrument was made in 1929.

I have Conn catalogues earlier than 1929 that list an 80-J but don't show any pictures.

I have a picture of a supposed 80-J which is not similar to mine.

Ergo, the need for a picture and/or info. Thanks.

brianf · Post by **brianf** » Sun Jan 09, 2005 8:58 am

There was a discussion about this a few years ago - check the archives. It seems that everyone seems to think this is the York. Personally, Idunno.

scottmendoker · Post by **scottmendoker** » Sun Jan 09, 2005 4:57 pm

During one of my lessons with Mr. Jacobs in the Fine Arts Building, there was a really cool looking travel trunk in one corner of the room. After my lesson, Mr. Jacobs asked me to take the tuba out of that trunk. It was a Conn - very short and fat and COULD have been one of those 84Js that is pictured.
Mr. Jacobs said that it was a Donatelli Conn that was being sold by, and, again, I'm probably wrong on this - Gene Dowling.
Anyhow, Mr. Jacobs asked me to play a low G. The horn, Mr. Jacobs, me - everything vibrated. Mr. Jacobs said that he had owned one for a short time and kept it for that "G". The rest of the horn was somewhat lacking in the pitch department - though I remember it being "manageable."

Scott Mendoker

Alex C · Post by **Alex C** » Sun Jan 09, 2005 8:45 pm

LV,

Thanks for posting the picture! I'm e-mailing you a picture of my Conn.

As you will see in my email, the configuration of the valve section of my tuba is different. Yours is the same set-up as the 80-J picture I have. It's a third party picture so I don't know the owner and... it's in black and white. It may be more than 15 years old.

My Conn is not small, slightly bigger than the Mirafone 1291. (It's made from thicker brass, too. It gets heavy.) The bell of your horn looks similar to mine but the branches of your instrument look. What can you really tell about size through photos, though?

Thanks again, LV. This was a help.

I'm still looking for someone with info or a jpeg of a "Donatelli Conn" tuba.

Daniel C. Oberloh · Post by **Daniel C. Oberloh** » Mon Jan 10, 2005 5:47 pm

I did some digging in my catalog collection and thought it would be fun to share.

Is it similar to this. It is from a catalog printed around 1919.

Daniel C. Oberloh

Oberloh Woodwind and Brass Works
Saving the world, one horn at a time...
www.oberloh.com

Rick Denney · Post by **Rick Denney** » Tue Jan 11, 2005 6:22 pm

Daniel C. Oberloh wrote:I did some digging in my catalog collection and thought it would be fun to share.

Dan, the picture you show seems identical to a picture Don Stauffer included in his book, A Treatise on the Tuba. The catalog text with that picture identified it as a 36J, Orchestra Grand Bass. Stauffer mentions that he used such an instrument in an orchestra in the middle 40's (he also described the flat third partial). The instrument in his picture (and yours) is pitched in C.

My Conn catalog, which dates from the middle 30's, shows the 36J as a recording bass with front-action valves (long stroke) and in BBb. The name is "Deluxe Recording Bass". It identifies the 80J as the same instrument in medium bore.

That catalog includes an endorsement by Donatelli (as well as a number of other players), where he writes, "I have used Conn basses exclusively since 1907 and consider them the finest and easiest playing basses attainable." The letter was dated 1934. I was amused to see in the catalog this statement, "All Conn testimonials are guaranteed to be voluntary and genuine expressions of opinion for which no payment of any kind has been or will be made." Uh-huh.

Rick "wondering which of the BBb instruments pictured in that catalog Donatelli actually owned, heh, heh" Denney

Daniel C. Oberloh · Post by **Daniel C. Oberloh** » Thu Jan 13, 2005 2:01 am

Thats very interesting Rick. I would really like to see that catalog page. Can you post it or e-mail it to me?

I thought I would include an image from one of my 1920s York catalog. It had the tilted valve section but shows the tube layout most commonly used on the front action models theybuilt into the late 30s. The 6/4 basses had the fourth valve slide on the side next to the third slide probably because the fifth valve sits where the fourth valve slide is located on the 4/4 horns. I played a recording bell model like this one about twentyfive years ago while visiting a shop in Minnesota and thought it was a great instrument. I have included a page showing that horn as well.

Daniel C. Oberloh
Oberloh Woodwind and Brass Works
Saving the world, one horn at a time...

Seattle, WA
206.241.5767
www.oberloh.com

Rick Denney · Post by **Rick Denney** » Thu Jan 13, 2005 4:11 pm

Daniel C. Oberloh wrote:Thats very interesting Rick. I would really like to see that catalog page. Can you post it or e-mail it to me?

I'd have to find the book and scan the page. But I think you'd enjoy having the whole book, which can be found at Amazon, here.

Not everything in the book is authoritative, but it's very much worth owning.

Rick "who thinks it's worth it just for the pics" Denney

Rick Denney · Post by **Rick Denney** » Thu Jan 13, 2005 4:20 pm

Daniel C. Oberloh wrote:I thought I would include an image from one of my 1920s York catalog.

Dan, your York catalog may be from the 20's, but only barely. I think it was 1926 when Pop Johnson bought himself into ownership and the name changed from J.W. York and Sons to York Band Instrument Company. And that note on the catalog page "...for nearly 50 years" suggests to me perhaps 49 years after the company's founding in 1884, which would be 1933.

Here's a picture of the same instrument you showed from an earlier catalog, before the name change. If yours really is from the 1932-34 time frame, then the product didn't change a bit for at least 8 years. That tells me they worked, and sold reasonably well. Interesting in this catalog, tubas with "side-action" valves were referred to as "American models".

Rick "noting the identical drawing and model numbers" Denney

Tabor · Post by **Tabor** » Thu Jan 13, 2005 4:36 pm

When I saw the picture autographed "to my good friend Arnold Jacob" I was pretty sure that it was "the York" when new, or at least an extremely similar York tuba. In any case it is an absolutely beautiful big horn with a short leadpipe, bracing and valves which look essentially identical to the other York pictures and appears to have everything in common with the Chicago Yorks except the dings and possibly the length of the slides. It immediatly reminded me of the BEAUTIFUL work on Daniel Oberloh's website which consistantly makes me smile with envy and amazes my co-workers.

I was thrown, however, when I first saw it and wasn't sure it was the same horn, not because of the finish but because of the overall look of the fit and finish of the horn. The finish on A.J.'s York looks a lot like the finish on my 1917 (I think) Holton euphonium in Satin Silver. Over time and use and more time and abuse (and probably someone buffing the crud out of it) the finish has really deteriorated on the euphonium.

After all kinds of little dings from day to day life, accidents involving resodering parts back together, attaching a different leadpipe, messing with the fifth valve, shortening the tuning slide and use for over 50 years etc...I'd imagine the look of any horn could change. The thing that struck me first was the angle and bend of the tubing coming out of the third valve. It might be a camera angle playing tricks on my eyes, but it seems to have slightly changed. Still, it looks like it is holding up better than I will at that age.

It all makes me wonder what the differences in the playabilty and sound of the horns from the time they were new until now, and then it also makes me wonder about the differences in sound between the York copies now, and the York copies when they are as "well seasoned" and oft-played as the Chicago Yorks.

P.S. does anyone know if the Chicago Yorks came with Mouthpieces, Lyres, piston wipers and carrying straps ?

[/u]

Alex C · Post by **Alex C** » Thu Jan 13, 2005 5:51 pm

Anyone familiar with the CSO Yorks knows that the repair these horns received was haphazard (AND this was from a premium shop) during the 40's-60's. Tubas got no respect in those days.

Maybe Brian knows if Jake had his tuba "reconditioned" during his ownership. That might address how the age of the tuba affected it's performance. Or maybe someone is familiar with the playing characteristics of the CSO Yorks since they were worked on.

I don't know if the Yorks originally came with mouthpiece, lyre, piston wipers and carrying case, only Philip Donatelli would know that.

And, hey speaking of Donatelli, has anyone got a picture or a description of an instrument labeled as a "Donatelli Conn Tuba?"

I am starting to believe that a Donatelli Conn is any "concert" tuba manufactured by Conn during his lifetime. Whaddayathink?

Rick Denney · Post by **Rick Denney** » Thu Jan 13, 2005 6:34 pm

Alex C wrote:Maybe Brian knows if Jake had his tuba "reconditioned" during his ownership. That might address how the age of the tuba affected it's performance. Or maybe someone is familiar with the playing characteristics of the CSO Yorks since they were worked on.

As I recall the stories, the second one was overhauled after Jacobs found it at the school in Oklahoma. I don't know which of the two was sent to Hirsbrunner for measurement, but I do recall that it was damaged en route and Hirbsrunner overhauled it to repair the damage. And we all recall the story in Song and Wind about the replacement of the leadpipe, and the replacement of the valves.

I do know that the more time that goes by, the better my tubas become, except when I ignore them (they don't like that).

Rick "who would love to make a series of high-quality photos of the York for posterity" Denney

Chuck(G) · Post by **Chuck(G)** » Thu Jan 13, 2005 6:51 pm

Alex C wrote:Maybe Brian knows if Jake had his tuba "reconditioned" during his ownership. That might address how the age of the tuba affected it's performance. Or maybe someone is familiar with the playing characteristics of the CSO Yorks since they were worked on.

Might this be an answer?

http://www.chisham.com/tips/bbs/feb2000 ... 22396.html

TubeNet

jpeg of a Donatelli Conn

jpeg of a Donatelli Conn

There's A York...

The Horn in Song and Wind