HS Concert band students required to join Marching Band too

[Tuba-G Bass]

Maybe I should have provided more information of the Band in question.

From the Tournament of Band site, they were ranked 22nd out of 41
with 87.95 in the Group 2 Open category.
The School is in a pretty affluent suburb area outside of Allentown, PA
Their Football team has won the PIAA State Championship 4A in 2002
and finished second in the state in 2007 [4A is the largest school Athletic classification in PA]
from their website
The Parkland High School "Trojan" Marching Band is a competitive style
marching band that participates in the Tournament of Bands organization.
As a member of TOB Chapter 2, Parkland competes regularly at local and
regional TOB events. The Trojans have been named the Chapter 2 Champions 7 times
and have made 11 appearances in the prestigious TOB Atlantic Coast Championships.
In 2009 Parkland was named the TOB Group 2 Invitational Grand Champions.
Additional performances have included the Chicago Thanksgiving Parade
and most recently the 2009 New York City Veterans Day Parade.

I chatted with a guy who went to my high school and now is the Band Director at
one of the big Bethlehem High Schools, [Freedom, home of the Patriots]
He said they have required Concert band folks to also march for awhile.

I wish Marching Band would have counted as a Phys Ed. credit at my school!

[ken k]

I am guessing that the reason the marching band only had 40 kids in it in a school of 3200 was that they competed in field shows and probably rehearsed every day after school and kids that wanted to do other sports could not do both. They probably had a pretty heavy summer rehearsal schedule as well (I don't know for sure I am just guessing) Unfortunately it is very common in this part of PA with schools which compete in field shows.

Now they are planning to practice during the school day only, will not have the extra competitions, and will only perform at football games and a few parades. So the schedule will be much more realistic and manageable for most HS kids, who are probably involved in many other activites as well. This school is a fairly affluent district and generally speaking has a fine music and arts program. I would guess that over the next few years the band may well grow in size. They said they already have 60 some freshman signed up for band next year. If you get 50 -60 in a class you will have a band over 200 if you can keep them in the band for all four years.

It sounds like a good compromise between getting the kids in marching band so it can represent the school in a positive light, providing a quality product the kids can be proud of and yet not have band take over their life.

this is a similar approach we take at the school I teach at and it works for us.
ken k

[TMurphy]

Wow! What a range of experiences! Tiny Schools with 20 peice bands to schools that pay a "low brass instructor".

I feel a need to clarify this, since I am the one who mentioned being a low brass instructor. I am employed full time by my school district as a fully certified music teacher. I run the instrumental music program in one of our schools, teaching grades 4-8....basically, elementary and middle school combined. One day per week (Monday), I spend at the high school in the district, where I teach tuba, trombone, and euphonium, which was my boss' idea to help build up the high school's low brass section. It doesn't cost the district any extra money to send me there, and if my own program continues to grow the way it has I'll have to stop doing it in a few years.

As for requiring marching band, as I said it my previous post, I understand why the director would do it. Here in our district, there is no such requirement. Marching band is not at all required to participate in the concert band, though they have no trouble getting kids to march, for the most part. The kids who do it, really love it.

[Biggs]

Attention: marching band has nothing to do with music. It has to do with visibility, fun, hanging out with your friends, watching sports, school spirit, goofy entertainment, traditions et al. It might build up your chops (this is a guaranteed side effect for percussionists), but, as was mentioned earlier, practicing is also a great way to build up your chops.

Regarding high school students being busy, Blake is right: being busy is a good thing.

Regarding requiring marching band for all instrumental music students: sometimes, unfortunately, organizations have to use their capabilities and talents in a way that deviates from their main mission in order to have the means to pursue their main mission. For example, the CSO deviates from their main mission of performing Western art ("classical") music by playing holiday pops concerts. This might not be the best use of the talents of the CSO, but ticket sales mandate that the cheesy music stays so that the art music may also stay. A highly visible marching band can serve the same purpose for a district's instrumental music program.

Maybe I'm just jealous of these students' problem; my high school doesn't have a band of ANY sort, much less one that marches.

[tubaforce]

I sure hope kiltie tuba is mistaken about DCI allowing Wood Winds! We did fine without them in Drum Corps when I was a kid, thank you! And I don't remember our arrangements lacking because we didn't have any Flutes or Reeds! Wood Wind players that can't pick up a Bugle, or Beat one of the Bass drums can always try out for the color guard! Maybe the Mayans were right....
Al

[alfredr]

Maybe the Mayans were right? about what? I thought we were talking about Trojans here.

Since most all Native Americans have been rehabilitated and it is no longer acceptable to use terms referring to them as team names or symbols, I think the Greeks should fight to get Trojans and Spartans rehabilitated too. Find another name for your team that can't possibly offend anyone. How about the Fighting Bumblebees?

Boy is this way off topic!

alfredr Sorry about that. (well, somewhat)

[alfredr]

Back to on topic now.

High school band is certainly different here in Marietta, Georgia (my last one graduated in 2005) than it was for me in small town northern Illinois. (I graduated in 1970.) I think we just had "band." There were somewhat over four hundred students in my high school, maybe 40 in band. That included marching band, except for the guys that played football. Marching band didn't count as phys ed. That was required also, four years, fall and spring, unless you were out for a sport.

My kids (two sons who did band [and one of them went to a smaller high school where the International Baccalaureate program was {one year he was the only tuba player in the whole school}] one daughter who didn't) went to a larger school. At that time I think it was five or six A. I just saw a sweatshirt on someone indicating a championship in "7AAAA" What?? The band is bigger. I don't know if marching was required or not. Both boys did it and loved it and went on to do drum corps. One still plays in community band or whatever and the other one I don't believe has played since aging out of drum corps. Can't even get him to go to TubaChristmas. Phys ed was required for one semester out of their four years of high school. I don' t think marching band counted as phys ed for them. They are both better players and marchers than I ever was. I can't even clap in time for very long.

We did no competitions when I was in school. I didn't even know such a thing was possible. I don't know how much of the differences between my high school band experience and my kids' is regional, large school/small school, mid 20th/early 21st century or if neither experience is really typical?

alfredr not sure I really said anything useful here either.

[pgym]

Maybe I should have provided more information of the Band in question.

From the Tournament of Band site, they were ranked 22nd out of 41
with 87.95 in the Group 2 Open category.
The School is in a pretty affluent suburb area outside of Allentown, PA
Their Football team has won the PIAA State Championship 4A in 2002
and finished second in the state in 2007 [4A is the largest school Athletic classification in PA]
from their website
The Parkland High School "Trojan" Marching Band is a competitive style
marching band that participates in the Tournament of Bands organization.
As a member of TOB Chapter 2, Parkland competes regularly at local and
regional TOB events. The Trojans have been named the Chapter 2 Champions 7 times
and have made 11 appearances in the prestigious TOB Atlantic CoasMaybt Championships.
In 2009 Parkland was named the TOB Group 2 Invitational Grand Champions.
Additional performances have included the Chicago Thanksgiving Parade
and most recently the 2009 New York City Veterans Day Parade.

Maybe you should also have included the information, reported by virtually every other area newspaper that reported the story (but still hasn't been mentioned by the Morning Call), that, as of the end of this school year, the band will no longer participate in competitions.

[sloan]

In my day, 2 ft of snow fell before every marching band practice, and the field was uphill, both ways.

[The Big Ben]

Even if we had wanted to (and none of us, including the director, really wanted to), we simply didn't have the money to do any more with marching band than what we did.

Sounds like a basic working class community. The houses look small but neat and adequate. My JHS and HS was similar. The uniforms were old and kind of worn but, from a distance, looked just fine. We "marched" for one football game a year but played in the stands for all of them and did the same for basketball.. We got off easy for basketball because there was a four-piece rock band within the band who wanted experience and exposure so played half of the games themselves. For concert band performances, it was white on the top, black on the bottom and shiny black shoes if you have them. My HS band director was an ex-vaudeville man who plays all the shows from the Seattle union. We couldn't march too well but, to get everyone back in line, when the parade stopped, we broke out, shook the hands of the folks in the audience and got back into line. His 'big deal' was producing a variety show once a year. It included the bands and any other kids in the school who wanted to participate. I know of about 10 players from the program who are still playing for money in rock or otherwise bands. (Those four guys who played the basketball games are still playing at least on the weekends. Indian casinos = money for semi-pro/pro musicians.)

Bloke, do you know if anyone other than yourself who into music full time for pay?

[TubaRay]

In my day, 2 ft of snow fell before every marching band practice, and the field was uphill, both ways.

Gosh! Mine was exactly the same, in South Texas. It snowed 2 ft. before each day of summer band(in Aug.), too.

(Always the cynic, aren't we?)

[TubaRay]

Maybe the Mayans were right? about what? I thought we were talking about Trojans here.

Since most all Native Americans have been rehabilitated and it is no longer acceptable to use terms referring to them as team names or symbols, I think the Greeks should fight to get Trojans and Spartans rehabilitated too. Find another name for your team that can't possibly offend anyone. How about the Fighting Bumblebees?

Boy is this way off topic!

alfredr Sorry about that. (well, somewhat)

Good ideas! In fact, why don't we just eliminate having team names or symbols. Also, I believe we should have ALL teams make the playoffs, too.

[BavarianFanfare]

I am concerned that many marching bands around the country are considered more important than the concert bands. When I was in high school, there was definitely more emphasis placed on the show than on the kids being strong players. Not everyone desires to march or wear hot, uncomfortable uniforms. Some kids want to play, and just play! I had a good time in marching band, but wished now that the concert groups was where the real emphasis was placed. In the college/university world have you ever heard anyone say "That University of North Texas Marching Band is fantastic!" Although, they may very well be, it's the 1 O' Clock Band folks are going to brag about, and it's a jazz band, not a marching band.

[Paul Scott]

My experience in h.s. band was the same as most of the "pre-1980s high school crowd" here. We had an ensemble called the "high school band" and in the Fall this meant marching half-time shows and Christmas parades, concerts in the Spring, and marching for Memorial Day in May. Everyone was expected to participate in whatever activity the band was involved in. Jazz Band (we called it Stage Band for some reason) was a one-night per-week invitation only deal.

Having said that I realize that times have changed. One big change around here (New Jersey) is that there are so many games during the week since the advent of lighted fields and night games, (a rarity in these parts back when). Almost all of our games were on weekends and during the day which made it easier for everyone to keep up with academics during the week. I was always home for dinner on a game day. We did no competitions (and would have laughed at the idea), marched about two shows per season and only began a "band camp" later on. We marched with the little music flip folders but by the end of the season we had everything memorized.

I do happen to think that marching band is a very beneficial thing for wind players and for tuba players in particular. Playing and marching at the same time does develop breath control and playing outdoors builds tone. I always suggest that my students practice outside when the weather is reasonable. And in my opinion it is a great thing to play for people on a regular basis with many repetitions as opposed to playing a concert only once or twice.

But every school situation is different and what is possible in one will not be possible in another. I do believe that everyone should march if it is at all possible.

[sailn2ba]

Marching band IS good for physical development of tuba players. . . and , in general, it’s good experience.
BUT. . . pursuing this year’s trophies (last year’s is dross) at all costs to the individual’s academic time is a total waste for the student. The band director, school, and district do benefit, and they promote the activity.
The student will benefit from learning, NOT from old trophies on the shelf. Some schools do have balanced programs (good!), but our whole country would benefit more from money spent on education, including music.

[jamsav]

growing up in port chester ,NY , we had a band , not two separate . In the fall, til the end of football season we marched , a lot . Starting @ 7:30 in the morning , we went straight thru to 9:30 or there abouts( band was our home room and frst period class ) . We'd be assigned music to have memorized before the first football game, ( maybe a dozen marches )and we'd prep a new field show for every home football game ( 5 a year I m guessing ) but the regimental style of marching and the memorized music made a new " show " no big deal....follow the guy in front of you , watch the drum major, listen for signals from the bass drum....rainy days- no problem...indoors , work the concert rep...often we 'd split the morning between inside and out...and while we marched and played really well , parade or field show was an outdoor moving concert , our emphasis was always the music...marching well was a given. The responsibilities to marching and concert play were one and the same , and the skills required of each enhanced the other aspect of our play and performance...want to build tone, chops- play outdoors while moving..The point of all this is ,IMHO , HS bands march- it comes with the territory , shouldnt be regarded as anything more than another opportunity to play and improve...what I regard as adisturbing trend is the " competition" marching band...the endless pursuit of the $20 trophy with school aged children being bussed all over the place to grab another piece of plastic at the expense of school work, family time and overall balance ...I think competitve HS marching band , and the commitment required of it, should be a matter of choice for those motivated toward it, not an imposition of a HS band system that persues another trophy every weekend ....

[TubaRay]

what I regard as adisturbing trend is the " competition" marching band...the endless pursuit of the $20 trophy with school aged children being bussed all over the place to grab another piece of plastic at the expense of school work, family time and overall balance ...I think competitve HS marching band , and the commitment required of it, should be a matter of choice for those motivated toward it, not an imposition of a HS band system that persues another trophy every weekend ....

Gotta ditto that!

[Chadtuba]

I feel that I should restate a little bit of what I stated in my post. I would require all my students to march if I had enough to do it, but I am not a big competitive guy. I still believe that marching/pep band is one of the biggest ways to promote the band program, but I also am realistic and don't want to take up huge amounts of time from my students' lives outside of school. I push my students to excel musically (at least I really hope I do) and most definitly don't want to sacrifice that for the sake of the "trophy" that competitive bands go after. Please realize that this is being said by a guy who has a state championship medal from HS where I commited countless hours to extra rehearsals, sectionals, and personal practice time. However, our marching program at that time was extra curricular and a combined band of the 4 high schools in our district. Each of the 4 high schools still played at their respective home football games and put on a field show for homecoming games.

I wasn't an athlete and had no other intrests outside of music. This was my hobby and my sport. I also played 1st violin in the orchestra and was a member of the select choir. I made life long friends that I still have 20 years later, most of which did not go to my high school.

[alfredr]

Boy, some of you guys either were much more into band or have better memories than I do. I can't remember if we practiced for marching band outside of band period. I can't remember if we had uniforms. I do remember having some formations, but I can't remember if we moved, played, moved, played, or tried playing while we moved. (other than the homecoming parade) I'm pretty certain there was no band boosters and no wrapping paper. The H. S. only had sousaphones as far as I know, no other style of tubas. I played a Conn baritone, three valves. I didn't know horns could have more. I still don't know how to use a fourth valve on my son's horn. Three is enough for me.

Yeah, I know, lessons could help with that.

alfredr remembering less every day.

[TubaRay]

I'm trying to remember. Did you post something, alfredr?