Transposing or not transposing, that's the question...

[Anterux]

First of all, thank you all for the votings and very interesting opinions on my last poll "composers and tubas".

One of that opinions was said by TubaTinker:

I vote a firm NO!!!!... American composers, anyway. They either don't know or simply don't care that tubas come in many keys... and WE'RE the ones who have to contend with all the different fingerings! Otherwise, they would be writing transposed tuba parts in the treble clef like some of the older parts of the World.

I find this very interesting. On one hand, it is much easier for the composer to write in Real Tone (C) and lets the tuba player choose the best tuba for the job. on the other hand we have to deal with different fingerings, some ambiguous writings (difficult to choose the type of tuba for exemple), and, in most cases the music for tuba fits better in the staff when in trebble cleff.

Another thing: who should choose the tuba? the player or the composer?

I'd apreciate some discussion about this.

[Dean]

I am not a tubists, I am a euphoniumist.

But, we have a similar issue in the bass/treble/tenor (sometimes alto) clef situation....

Maybe it is simply a "I had to do it so you have to as well" thing, but I think it should be learned. Learning a new set of fingerings for written notes is always helpful, never harmful. It makes you a more capable and diverse musician, and in the end, its not that hard! (Time consuming, maybe, but not difficult)

[Dylan King]

I love the bass clef. I wouldn't want it any other way.

[Chuck(G)]

In the end, it'd all be the same. If all tuba music was written in Bb treble clef, then owners of CC and F tubas would learn the fingerings necessary to transpose from that, regardless of what instrument the composer intended.

[Dan Schultz]

In the end, it'd all be the same. If all tuba music was written in Bb treble clef, then owners of CC and F tubas would learn the fingerings necessary to transpose from that, regardless of what instrument the composer intended.

I suppose you are correct, Chuck... and... even though it was I who started this whole rant, I sincerely don't have a problem having to know multiple fingerings. My whole point was to add fuel to the matter that it seems to me that most composers don't know a tuba from a hole in the ground. They don't have to as long as they can rely on us to do their work. Besides, why couldn't transposed treble clef parts be offerred regardless of which horn the composer intended? Then... we would still have a choice.

[Anterux]

I think, if the music is good, the way it is written doesnt matter much.
tuba players are very versatil (? this word exists in english?) witch is very good.
I think composers will soon (some already did) look at our instruments not only to play technical demonstrations or funny musical gags, but also to play music in all aspects music as to offer.
I also think, given the circunstancies (?) of our time, our public, our musical society, we did what we had to do. we made good publicity of our instrument playing everithing we could get a hand to even if it was for piccolo.
And we can and will still do it.
But, I think we have already win a place where we deserve more for us from composers.
I am primarely a composer. I love to play tuba, but I am not a pro.
I will try to do my best to do good music always.
thank you all for the good advices and comments here and in all posts. and keep them comming!!!
again sorry for my english. I'm trying to learn that too.

[chronolith]

This is where trumpet training has come in handy.

Just for yucks Vince Cichowicz used to throw Eb sightreading at us on the Bb or C trumpet, then have us transpose it down a full step, or maybe up a half step or a perfect fifth. If you made it past that then he would throw some more flats in the key signature. I learned to play bass clef by pretending I was playing Eb/E trumpet transpositions (add naturals as necessary).

It's a good exercise for any musician. Nothing a tuba player can't handle though. As somebody most excellently said before, tuba players are nothing if not flexible. At the end of all the transposing - for lack of better terminology - it is all relative, just another calculation in the circle of fifths.

Lots of us started on BBb tubas (speaking as an American) then moved up to CC. That's the hardest switch. F tuba fingerings as you know are (basically) half of the BBb fingerings and half of the CC fingerings. Once you learn your second set of fingerings, they get easier each time. Trust me - from one who had to be able to hit stage with a trumpet in the key of Bb, C, D, Eb, E (for the odd concerto), F, G, or piccolo trumpet in A.

[Rick Denney]

The only reason trumpet music is written to be transposed is because of the heritage of natural trumpets that were not chromatic. The invention of the valves made that sort of transposition unnecessary.

There is a difference between the skill of transposing on the fly and the ability to learn a new instrument. I can do the latter, but the former baffles me utterly.

Most amateurs--even horn players--do not transpose much if at all. I'm rare, I suppose, among bonehead hack hobbyists in that I've learned the F tuba as well as BBb. The transposers are unable to comprehend how I do it, but I tell them that I learned it like a different instrument, as I might learn, say, the trombone. They probably think transposition is easier than that, and maybe it is up to a point. But I don't know many trumpet players at my level that take any given music up a half a step, or down a whole step, on the fly.

Rick "who thinks it's hard enough to far on one path without jumping back and forth to a different path" Denney