Any Tire Experts?

[Dan Schultz]

A friend of mine called me a bit ago. He wants to have two new tires put on his RAV-4 because the ones on the front are about worn out. The guy at the tire agency told him it would be better to put the new tires on the back... said it was better for avoiding hydroplaning.

This doesn't make a lick of sense to me. I always try to keep my better tires on the front... even when I had rear-wheel drive cars.

Is the guy at the tire agency telling my friend that new tires hydroplane worse than worn tires?

[cjk]

Here's a reasonable explanation:
http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/how-to/4243992" target="_blank

Tell your friend to rotate his tires, then replace all four at once.

[The Big Ben]

Oh, where is James, the Tuba Shaman when we need him? He supported himself bustin' tires at Discount Tire.

[tclements]

That sounds all bassackwards to me. The tires with the best traction should be on the front. No, I am, NOT an expert. This just seems like common sense to me.

[MartyNeilan]

Every tire shop I have ever been to has told me the same thing. Unlike the near equal weight distribution of some RWD cars (including the BMW 3 series with a perfect 50-50,) most FWD cars are very front heavy. If the rear tires have inadequate tread, the tail will easily come loose in standing water. Experienced this firsthand when my ex tried to pass a big rig during a thunderstorm.

[tofu]

[clunkertruck]

I've been doing tires for 30 years-- to the point of being "retired"--oops! THE # 1 offender in MOST vehicle problems is carelessness-- PERIOD -- What with the new technology in cars these days ie: traction sensors, auto AWD, ride controls, fart fans, geese-- People think they can do 70 in a blizzard and text and get away with it--

I have always run very good to excellent tire on the steering axle-- I mean, stuff happens, but when it does so and it's attached to the steering wheel, it can be CATASTROPHIC !-- I don't know the condition of the other two tires, but I do know Hydroplaning-- It occurs 90% of the time due to excess SPEED-- If someone has some tires on their car that aren't new, rain is not a real problem providing they are careful and slow down a little!! (arrive alive)

[Dan Schultz]

Some of you need to re-read my original post.... The guy has two worn tires on the front and wants to put two new tires on the front. The tire store is trying to convince him that the new tires should be on the back.

Start over.

[MartyNeilan]

Some of you need to re-read my original post.... The guy has two worn tires on the front and wants to put two new tires on the front. The tire store is trying to convince him that the new tires should be on the back.

Start over.

Every tire shop I have ever been to has told me the same thing.

[Dan Schultz]

Some of you need to re-read my original post.... The guy has two worn tires on the front and wants to put two new tires on the front. The tire store is trying to convince him that the new tires should be on the back.

Start over.

Every tire shop I have ever been to has told me the same thing.

Mainly.... I was referring to the Popular Mechanics article. I understood what you were saying. It makes some sense.

However... the way the salesperson portrayed the issue to my friend was that the new tires had a better chance of hydroplaning. That's the term he used.... 'hydroplaning'.

[clunkertruck]

That would depend on tread design-- I mean it is possible to buy a NEW set of racing slicks-- Those would give ya a ride-- Seriously though, MOST any passenger tread design today will "channel" water away-- If this shop man really means that new tires will hydroplane worse than the used ones will then i would never buy new anymore-- That's just absurd-- Tell your friend to TRUST in his own common sense on this one--

[MartyNeilan]

I think what they were trying to say is to take the "good" rear tires, move them on the front, and put the "new" tires on the back. Tire people have never been known to be the best communicators
On the tire company's assumption that many people never rotate tires (probably true in many cases) the rear tires will then have tread longer than the front tires. Worn tread on rear tires + FWD = fishtailing.

[Dan Schultz]

I think what they were trying to say is to take the "good" rear tires, move them on the front, and put the "new" tires on the back. Tire people have never been known to be the best communicators
On the tire company's assumption that many people never rotate tires (probably true in many cases) the rear tires will then have tread longer than the front tires. Worn tread on rear tires + FWD = fishtailing.

Yeah... that was sort of my take on it. I just get pi**ed off when trusted sources like Popular Mechanics don't do a very good job of expressing themselves.

Clunkertruck.... I think you're right on here. No one should make a general statement regarding where the new tires should go. In this case... the RAV-4 is just a plain old front-wheel-drive. No ABS.... no stability control.... no traction control. Plus.... that vehicle a very short wheel base. I would think the better tires belong on the front... in this case, the new ones.

[windshieldbug]

Actually, they tire store MEANT what they said, even if they didn't understand it.

They were just deciding for your friend which end of his RAV-4 should lose control first.
Kinda like Ralph Nader vs. Corvair.

Put the old tires on the back, and and you'll lose control there first, and fish-tail.
Put the old tires on the front, and you're more likely to lose the front, and plow into something first.

Now I grew up with VW Beetles and rear-engined Porsches, so I'd prefer a little over-steer and some influence over my vehicle's control.

I also know little about the RAV-4's weight distribution, but I suspect it may be a little front-heavy, and I'd like the new tires supporting the greatest weight. Plus, with FWD, the front tires do ALL the work (steer, drive, suspend) while the back wheels just keep the rear from falling over.

Also, since your front tires hit standing water first, they are more likely to hydroplane, while the rear, following wheels are in the hollow that the front wheels just cleared for them, another reason to put them on the front.

But I'd be much more likely to follow a manufacturer's recommendation than a tire-store clerks.

[Dan Schultz]

Sequel.... I spoke with Wayne this evening... my trombone-playing friend... to see what he decided to do about where to mount the new tires.

He told me that he wasn't given a choice. The new tires were put on the rear of the RAV-4. The tire dealer is Raben Tire... a southern-Indiana chain. He was told it was 'company policy' and he didn't have a choice.

Basically, they do it that way to keep the rear-end from trying to pass the front-end in a skid. Must be some kind of 'cover-your-***' liability issue.

[clunkertruck]

WOW -- No one has EVER told me where I had to put tires that were my own property-- Good thing too or I'd sure tell them where they could put theirs

[cjk]

Some of you need to re-read my original post.... The guy has two worn tires on the front and wants to put two new tires on the front. The tire store is trying to convince him that the new tires should be on the back.

Start over.

Every tire shop I have ever been to has told me the same thing.

Mainly.... I was referring to the Popular Mechanics article. I understood what you were saying. It makes some sense.

However... the way the salesperson portrayed the issue to my friend was that the new tires had a better chance of hydroplaning. That's the term he used.... 'hydroplaning'.

Sorry. I interpreted your original post to mean that that the tire shop was going to put the present rear tires which were already on the car on the front and put the new tires on the rear, which is what tire manufacturers recommend. I thought the popular mechanics article was a short, concise explanation of why.

Here's an explanation from Michelin (scroll all the way to the bottom) which also links to a video:
http://www.michelinman.com/tire-care/ti ... questions/" target="_blank
Here's the video, if none of the previous explanations convince you, this might:
http://www.michelinman.com/tire-care/ti ... re-change/" target="_blank

Here's also excessively verbose explanation from the tirerack.com:
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/ ... ?techid=52" target="_blank

Anyhow, I hope this helps,

Christian

[Brown Mule]

Keep your best tires on the front---------------if you have flat or blow out, better that it be on rear.

[Dan Schultz]

Keep your best tires on the front---------------if you have flat or blow out, better that it be on rear.

That's what I always thought until this latest revelation from Michelin. According to the 'tire industry'... you'll have a tough time finding a tire dealer who will put the new tires on the front. I suppose "Bubba's Tire Shop" will still do it because no one there can read!

I'm thinking that the change from rear drive to front drive has prompted this different course of action. Use to be... with rear drive cars... there was a natural braking action on the rear wheels by virtue of engine drag. That's gone away with modern cars and this is just a way to keep more friction on the rear of the car to keep the tail end where it belongs.... behind the front wheels.

[Uncle Buck]

My takeaway from this thread is:

1. There are lots of reasons to consider putting your better tires on the front.
2. Hydroplaning is a good reason to consider putting your better tires in the back.
3. Tire sellers probably sell more tires by recommending #2 - simply because people won't live with worn tires on the front as long as they will live with worn tires on the back.

Obviously regular rotations is the best option - but most people don't take the time or effort to do that.