Cost to Cut

[darth2ba]

Hello all!

I was wondering approximately how much it would cost to cut a BBb to CC? I'd like to eventually get a 4/4 BBb and cut it to a CC.

Thank you for your input!

[The Big Ben]

I know Sam uses King 1241/2341 bodies and Monster Eb bells. He frequently adds a rotor 5th valve. However, the really expensive part is Sam's little book of measurements. That tells him what has worked over the years and what has not worked. Many people speak highly about the sound of Sam's horns and that would seem to be a good reason to try one out, not just the fact that it began as a BBb horn. He's also made larger horns from other pieces he collects.

[SousaSaver]

An awful lot of that cost is heavily dependent on the layout of the horn. Many horns are terrible candidates due to the tubing layout. Also, a bad BBb will NOT magically become a good CC. It does not work that way.

The minimum cost, if done by someone who will not screw it up, is mostly likely going to exceed $3,000 AFTER you have purchased your candidate tuba.

Why not just buy a CC that you know will work and not risk so much money and a tuba on a risky proposition? Or, if you just have to have a horn that was "cut" then get one from one of the few guys who do this sort of thing often? If you go that route then you need to purchase one cut and assembled by one of them. Sam Gnagey produces such horns on a regular basis and sells them, finished, for about $6,000 (or more, I think, but I do NOT know). He always runs ads for his newest creations here in the For Sale forum.

The guys who do this for fun and money have worked out what parts from what horns need to be used and where all the cuts need to be made to create a tuba that actually plays well.

So, back to your question: It depends on what you want cut and who does the work, and regardless of the answers to these two questions it will not be cheap. You can usually get a horn in CC for the price of your purchased BBb and the cut job. This is MANY hours of very hard work and you will have to pay for that, even if your horn ends up a complete bowser.

Here is someone who has hit the nail on the head. Good job, Elephant.

[Rick Denney]

I seem to recall that Bob Rusk got $2000 to convert an instrument, after all the parts were overhauled, and without adding any valves. And that was a wholesale price to a dealer, with its lower risk.

By the time you take a junker Bb and turn it into a nice C (assuming it is possible), you will have spent the better part of five grand, not including the Bb carcass, and not including such indulgences as silver plating or like-new polishing. Those very few who know how to do it are not interested in budget projects, or in wasting time with low-grade starter instruments. The asian manufacturers already fill that price point, and sometimes even with competent instruments. The lowest price for instruments already converted are probably those done by Sam Gnagey. The conversions that didn't work are often cheaper, of course, but they are still bad deals.

Believe me, I know all about how to do it wrong.

Rick "wondering what's wrong with Bb" Denney

[The Big Ben]

If you wanted to do it as a mechanical and intellectual challenge, much as Rick has done with a Eb to F conversion, have at it. At worst you could sell it for scrap. But, paying to have it done doesn't add up.

[tclements]

I'd just buy a CC.....

[Ben]

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=43473" target="_blank

Sam has 2 new 4/4 CC's that look great. His price is in the link. Best of luck to you.

[TUBAD83]

I have never understood why this myth about taking BBb horns and cutting on them to turn them into CC horns has taken such a firm hold in the tuba world---despite the fact that it almost NEVER works. Is there a legendary CC horn out there that started out as lowly BBb that I'm not aware of or what?

JJ

[Dan Schultz]

I'd just buy a CC.....

Ta Da! Ding ding ding ding. That's the correct answer!

[Bob Kolada]

Don't forget to factor in the costs for knee replacement for when we find you after.

[Bob Kolada]

I have never understood why this myth about taking BBb horns and cutting on them to turn them into CC horns has taken such a firm hold in the tuba world---despite the fact that it almost NEVER works. Is there a legendary CC horn out there that started out as lowly BBb that I'm not aware of or what?
JJ

IMG
For the most part, though, I do not consider it to be a reliable nor a cost-effective enterprise.

...or legendary...

[J.c. Sherman]

Besides my worrying that in 50 years there won't BE any legendary BBbs as they'll all be cut to CC, the "is it worth it" question is usually not answered by those who think they must play a CC instead of a BBb. Really, with the exception of nice sounding/crap playing BBb tubas (King 1140/Couesnon) which actually do seem to work better after the cut, a better and more affordable excercise is to take the damaged BBb and just fix it There are just a couple CC's that actually existed, bows and all, as cut BBbs (besides the obvious Conn 5xJ tubas). Other than that, it take a quite a few trys and a hell of a lot of labor to learn to do this right, and by then, you charge accordingly...

J.c.

[Rick Denney]

I have never understood why this myth about taking BBb horns and cutting on them to turn them into CC horns has taken such a firm hold in the tuba world---despite the fact that it almost NEVER works. Is there a legendary CC horn out there that started out as lowly BBb that I'm not aware of or what?

At the time Bob Rusk started converting old York Bb carcasses, there were no C yorkophones on the market. Holton had stopped making the 345, not that they ever made them consistently, and it was a dozen years after Holton stopped that the Yorkbrunner became available.

When it was a way to turn a Bb junker that nobody wanted into a useful professional instrument, and when that sort of professional instrument was tough to come by in any case, then it made a lot of sense. It is generally no longer necessary.

And we should remember that these projects are not destroying rare and beautiful Bb tubas. Those can be sold at too high a price point to be a cost-effective starting point for a conversion.

My own Holton is an example. If converted to a C and sold at the prevailing market value for a Holton C conversion, however good, it would have made its dealer exactly the same profit (actual dollars, not percentage margin) as it did when I bought it as a rather rough Bb tuba. But the dealer would have had three times as much investment at risk to make that same profit. It would have just been bad business. The Bb carcass for a conversion has to be cheap, and usually it's outer branches with a trashed valve set or something like that. The reason a Holton C conversion only gets so much in the market is because there are now a number of similar C tubas that have been made long enough to provide all the supply that can attract a higher price.

Rick "the market sorts this stuff out" Denney