Stretching a horn?

[The Big Ben]

Thinking of the recent thread on cutting horns, I've thought about stretching an Eb to a CC. I have an Amati Eb (the cheapest one) and I can get it in D by pulling out the tuning slide as far as it goes. If I made a longer tuning slide, perhaps I could get it into C. Might not sound too good but the concept is there.

Cutting takes material out and is not easily reversed. Stretching could be reversed if the results made a worse CC than Eb. The valve slides could be pulled out instead of cut off. Any tubes or material that was put in could be taken out. Anyone played around with this? Where would be a good place to put the extra length ideally? I'm guessing putting the length into the bugle if possible would be best. Anyone made a CC that was any good this way?

Why do it? Intellectual and mechanical challenge more than anything. And it might get a few Ebs out of closets and in use.

[iiipopes]

The problem is adding that much cylindrical tubing will expand the octaves and foul up the intonation on the other intervals.

[The Big Ben]

The problem is adding that much cylindrical tubing will expand the octaves and foul up the intonation on the other intervals.

The 'long tuning slide' is the only thing I have tried and haven't even made some sort of a plastic tube extension to experiment. It appears that it might be possible to add a tapered piece of tubing (which would have to manufactured) just after the valves. This would preserve the conical nature of the bugle.

[imperialbari]

No matter where you add the extra length within the bugle then the bore is given at both ends of the addition(-s). If you replace some cylindrical tubing, then the replacement has to be cylindrical also. If you replace some tapered tubing then the replacement shall either be a composite of cylindrical and tapered tubing (the original one?), or the replacement tubing shall be all tapered only at a lower rate of expansion than the original tubing.

There is an option for a maybe limited test of the potentials of the converted instrument. Tape down the third valve. Pull the other slides to the length needed for a CC tuba, and then try playing the resulting CC instrument as much as the scale gaps (coming from the lack of a 3rd valve) will allow for.

Klaus

[The Big Ben]

There is an option for a maybe limited test of the potentials of the converted instrument. Tape down the third valve. Pull the other slides to the length needed for a CC tuba, and then try playing the resulting CC instrument as much as the scale gaps (coming from the lack of a 3rd valve) will allow for.

There is a story that Arnold Jacobs auditioned for Curtis with such a horn.

My Eb only has three valves. Amati uses the same general body for an F, Eb, CC and BBb horn with the inner branches changes. Better forget about this one and go back to practicing....

[imperialbari]

True DCI fans of the older school rave about their two valve GG contras, maybe because these after all were more friendly that their Nicaraguan namesakes. So why not get your self some fun with a CC 3 valve contra?

If your valve slides have long pulls, then I might suggest you get the most out your Amati Eb by adding a tuning rod to your 3rd slide for getting 13 and 123 in tune, maybe even allowing for the low Ab.

Klaus

[averagejoe]

There is an option for a maybe limited test of the potentials of the converted instrument. Tape down the third valve. Pull the other slides to the length needed for a CC tuba, and then try playing the resulting CC instrument as much as the scale gaps (coming from the lack of a 3rd valve) will allow for.

There is a story that Arnold Jacobs auditioned for Curtis with such a horn.

My Eb only has three valves. Amati uses the same general body for an F, Eb, CC and BBb horn with the inner branches changes. Better forget about this one and go back to practicing....

He had the fourth valve tied down to put it in BBb. It is a true story, he said it himself.

[Timswisstuba]

I talked with Harvey Hartman about some sousaphone elongation, evidently (although it should be confirmed by either party) Tim might have an Eb sousaphone with extra slides, for the main and the valves, to bring the pitch down to CC.

Yes, Harvey and I made a 4 valve CC sousaphone from an Eb. The open bugle CC is very good but gets stuffier as you finger downwards because of all the cylindrical tubing. Intonation is tricky but certainly workable.

[The Big Ben]

There is an option for a maybe limited test of the potentials of the converted instrument. Tape down the third valve. Pull the other slides to the length needed for a CC tuba, and then try playing the resulting CC instrument as much as the scale gaps (coming from the lack of a 3rd valve) will allow for.

There is a story that Arnold Jacobs auditioned for Curtis with such a horn.

My Eb only has three valves. Amati uses the same general body for an F, Eb, CC and BBb horn with the inner branches changes. Better forget about this one and go back to practicing....

He had the fourth valve tied down to put it in BBb. It is a true story, he said it himself.

I suppose reading carefully would help...

[SousaSaver]

This is incredibly tricky territory here. I wouldn't ever want to do this with cylindrical tubing (if by THIS we are talking about elongating the bugle). I would search for existing parts that I could use that fit and have a close to workable taper. Now there is the trouble and probably why you don't see this done.

It is far easier to remove material and make existing parts work than it is to make things longer.

It is a noble idea to get many old Eb's into use, but your best bet would probably be learn Eb fingerings OR have the valves rebuilt and put them into F.

[The Big Ben]

This is incredibly tricky territory here. I wouldn't ever want to do this with cylindrical tubing (if by THIS we are talking about elongating the bugle). I would search for existing parts that I could use that fit and have a close to workable taper. Now there is the trouble and probably why you don't see this done.

It is far easier to remove material and make existing parts work than it is to make things longer.

It is a noble idea to get many old Eb's into use, but your best bet would probably be learn Eb fingerings OR have the valves rebuilt and put them into F.

I thought it was an interesting idea. I'm not going to touch this horn- just play it in Eb. I'm a remade trumpet player and have always wondered how difficult it would be to just read bass clef music and use the direct fingerings rather than the 'transposing' BBb, or Eb fingerings. Now that I know BBb fingerings, it has become less attractive. I rarely play the trumpet now and, when I do, my problem is reading the treble clef music as bass clef and try to use the BBb tuba fingerings. I just need to play my trumpet more often.

[Harvey Hartman]

I have a EEb York Helicon Project in the works. (When I have Time to work on it) That I will be a adding a 4th valve and making removeable slides that will put it into CC. So the horn will be EEb or CC much like .Tim & I did to his 4 valve EEb King sousaphone. The York has a Ex. loop that when used makes it play very flat in 440. If it dont turn out a good player in CC .I will just remove the slides and sell it as a EEb helicon. Thanks Harv.
Schleppy is having fun with his Helicon. I was very happy to made this horn for him.
http://harvshappyhorns.blogspot.com/201 ... licon.html" target="_blank" target="_blank