A new blog for your comments and criticism.

[tclements]

Yes, the positions of which I speak would be full time, tenure track positions. ARE colleges/universities hiring without the doctorate?

[Biggs]

Yes, the positions of which I speak would be full time, tenure track positions. ARE colleges/universities hiring without the doctorate?

Yes, but apparently not everywhere. I think, in most cases, these hires have been based on the same types of career accomplishments that you mentioned as criteria for adjunct hires (there's probably a few examples out there of guys/girls who were initially hired as adjuncts before being promoted). I've never been on a search committee though, so I can't prove what the deciding factor was, just what it wasn't.

[sloan]

I'm sorry to have offended you. I should specified/restricted my comments to referring to graduate programs. Due to the sheer number of students receiving undergraduate degrees, it has practically become necessary to get a bachelor's degree, unless, like Mojo mentioned, you plan on working in a trade.

Judging from the way some folks here evaluate undergraduate tuba programs, it seems to me that they consider music a "trade".

So...why go to college, if you want a career in music.

Discuss.

[Uncle Buck]

I would guess if one was to apply for a full time instructor of your instrument, a terminal degree would be needed. Here, in San José, when a full time brass post opened, they did not even consider anyone without a Doctorate.

If I can equate full-time with tenured or tenure-track (please correct me if I'm misinterpreting), then I guess our examples just prove that, unsurprisingly, hiring practices vary between institutions.

I think another way to ask the question, and I think I know the answer. In the past, universities hired instrumental professors without terminal degrees, and many of them still have their jobs. Are any still doing that? Any chance of getting the job in 2011 without the terminal degree?

Nicely written blog, by the way. That advice could have saved me several years - but then I wouldn't be the guy I am now, would I? There probably was no way other than real experience for me to realize teaching public school band was NOT for me.

[k001k47]

Wait...

A blog about bacteria sparks a more heated argument than this?

Somehow, I'm not surprised. This is TubeNet after all.

[Biggs]

I would guess if one was to apply for a full time instructor of your instrument, a terminal degree would be needed. Here, in San José, when a full time brass post opened, they did not even consider anyone without a Doctorate.

If I can equate full-time with tenured or tenure-track (please correct me if I'm misinterpreting), then I guess our examples just prove that, unsurprisingly, hiring practices vary between institutions.

I think another way to ask the question, and I think I know the answer. In the past, universities hired instrumental professors without terminal degrees, and many of them still have their jobs. Are any still doing that? Any chance of getting the job in 2011 without the terminal degree?

This did happen in the past, and, yes, it is still happening in some places. I can't speak specifically to 2011 (we're only three months in), but I can think of examples from the past few years. Again, terminal degrees are great additions to any resume and likely make the best candidates' resumes even better, but they're only dealbreakers in the eyes of some search committees.

[Phil Dawson]

Tony makes several very good points in his blog. When I was an undergrad in the late 70s I wound up getting a MusEd degree. I wasn't sure I really wanted to teach but with what my parents and later I spent on my education not getting a degree in something was not an option. When putting myself through the last 3 years of my 7 year program I also did a locksmith apprentice program. When I graduated I was a certified teacher and was able to open my own locksmithing business. We then took a trip around the NW and settled in Montana for 8 years. I made an OK living and practiced a lot and played a bit. We then moved back to Denver where I opened a business and started playing in the community. Being in business for myself gave me the freedom to play gigs and in community groups as I wished and time permitted. Over the course of the years I played some Dixie, brass bands, wind ensembles, brass choirs, orchestras, tuba ensembles, you name it I played in it. Later on I got a Masters degree in music recording and taught at a university in Montana for a year (the politics were insane). I put myself through grad school with no loans as I was able to keep my business going at the same time.There was never any thought of quitting my day job. The harsh reality is that MOST OF US AREN'T GOOD ENOUGH TO MAKE A LIVING PLAYING FULL TIME. That can be tough to admit but it is reality folks. So if you love to play get yourself a skill that allows you to make a fair amount of money with a minimum of stress and spend as much time practicing as you can. I was fortunate enough to play 2 of the Moody Blues with Orchestra concerts, play with a few big time jazz players, and many classical soloists with orchestra. School is almost always a good thing but not always (if ever) going deeply in debt for. It can help you to be a better amateur musician. Music is great - it's just not the greatest way to make a living.
Good luck to all, Phil

[Michael Bush]

I know a guy with no terminal degree who got a job as low brass instructor and assistant director of bands at a regional comprehensive just last year, 2010.