quality tuner

[bbocaner]

Really? Because I've found the VSAM to be VERY stable for pitch. When dealing with a expertly voiced pipe (by me...), that produces a stable tone, the VSAM locks like a clamp onto the pitch. Did you try the VSAM in a busy room? When you say it wouldn't lock onto a pitch, do you mean the note name indicator was jumping around, or that the strobe was constantly moving?

I'm a trombone/euphonium player and I had a lot of trouble with both a VSAM and a stroboflip locking onto the pitch AND with the fake strobe display jumping around. This is in both busy rooms and in my quiet practice room.

My VSAM will tune, and produce pitch to 32' CCCC (16hz) without pushing any special buttons. And oh by the way, why do you need to try and tune to 64' CCCCC (8hz) to a tuner when 99% of tuba players can't even play the 32' CCCC?

You telling me 99% of tuba players can't play a pedal tone? According to peterson, their algorithm actually filters out everything but the fundamental, so the rich harmonic content in the low range shouldn't matter past the point at which the fundamental is detected. In my experience, using it in the "bass shift" mode helps it figure out the fundamental, even if you aren't playing all the way down in the 1st octave.

This one line from the turbotuner website is enough for me, "The TurboTuner gets it right the first time - no need to fine tune by ear."
FU.

I believe that quote is aimed at electric guitar players who often need to tune w/o being able to hear their instruments, and for whom the lack of accuracy on needle and LED-based tuners means they need to tweak their tuning by ear after tuning their strings with such a tuner in order for chords to ring true.

You should try a turbotuner -- it really locks in to the pitch you are trying to tune much better than the peterson virtual strobes do. My one beef with their product is it doesn't have the capability to generate any tones.

[Dan Schultz]

Lookie here.... it has a die-cast metal case so you can even stomp on it!

http://cgi.ebay.com/New-Turbo-Tuner-Mod ... 35b0c78212

[bbocaner]

You didn't answer my question. So the strobe was moving, that means you weren't in tune. Was the note name display fluctuating wildly too? If you are having those sorts of problems in the middle of the bass clef staff, then it's either user error, or a defective unit.

Both, to some extent. Maybe I haven't practiced enough long tones to be able to be really consistent with pitch and timbre, but I've always had trouble with their tuners not locking into the note it's measuring, and also with the display flipping wildly back and forth, sharp/flat/sharp/flat. Maybe it's great at dealing with organ pipes being fed by a constant supply of clean air in quiet surroundings, but it isn't wonderful at dealing with a wind instrument in the real world. I studied for over ten years with a teacher who was one of Peterson's clinicians who would travel around giving lectures on how to use a tuner and the benefits of Peterson's products, I know how to use them and I know how they work. They aren't bad -- they are actually really good and a ton better than the needle or LED type. The turbotuner is even better. How can you dispute this if you've never tried it?

As this point, I'm telling you that you don't know what you're talking about and that you have NO idea how low 16hz is. The fundamental (or pedal tone) of a CC tuba is 16' C, or CCC, or 32hz.
I searched both my manual, and the Peterson website for information backing up your claim about their algorithm and couldn't find anything. The very nature and design of a strobe is in direct conflict to your statement. The various rings in the strobe show the various harmonics present in a pitch, and in what range you are attempting to tune.

You don't have to be a jerk. I do know what I'm talking about. The pedal tone of a CC tuba is 32hz. Which means the pedal tone of a BBb tuba or pedal plus any valve of the CC tuba is lower than the Peterson VSAM can handle without going into bass shift mode. But my point was that I believe when in bass shift mode the VSAM makes better decisions about locking onto the fundamental of notes that are low, but above the 32hz C.

Check the forums on the peterson website, all the technical info is there. Peterson virtual strobes are NOT true strobe tuners. Ever notice that the rings NEVER move or change relative to each other the way they do on a real spinning-wheel strobe tuner? That's because it's only measuring the fundamental and those "rings" on a virtual strobe are just a fake display meant to be evocative of the old-style tuners. Peterson virtual strobes do work in a strobe-like fashion, by generating a reference pitch and then comparing the (filtered) input pitch and measuring the interference, however it is not a real strobe.

Why when my Peterson is good enough for helping me tune multi-million dollar pipe organs, and as I've said before, the best tuners ever designed are on the sides of all of our heads.

It may work great on pipe organs, but you yourself admit it doesn't work so well on tuba...

I completely agree about using your ears (I myself have perfect pitch and also understand well the compromises of equal temperament) HOWEVER I still find a tuner to be a valuable practice tool, especially one that doesn't have trouble figuring out which notes I'm playing.

[bbocaner]

Lookie here.... it has a die-cast metal case so you can even stomp on it!

http://cgi.ebay.com/New-Turbo-Tuner-Mod ... 35b0c78212

Your point? They make a special model with the needs of electric guitarists in mind. This is not the model I am suggesting. So does Peterson, by the way, except Peterson's has been widely criticized for having flimsy jacks.

[Dan Schultz]

Lookie here.... it has a die-cast metal case so you can even stomp on it!

http://cgi.ebay.com/New-Turbo-Tuner-Mod ... 35b0c78212

Your point? They make a special model with the needs of electric guitarists in mind. This is not the model I am suggesting. So does Peterson, by the way, except Peterson's has been widely criticized for having flimsy jacks.

The point I'm trying to make here is that I have waded (sorry, Wade... no pun intended) through four pages of blabber about tuners and I haven't seen one hint of what might be the best 'bang for the buck'. I've been thinking about buying a new tuner to just keep in the shop but am not interested in spending over $100 for one. I guess I'll just stick with my little Korg CA-30... which seems to do about all I need to do.

[bbocaner]

My VSAM will tune, and produce pitch to 32' CCCC (16hz) without pushing any special buttons.

This is just not true. Read your manual. You need to hold down the button with the little bass clef next to it while you power it on to go into bass shift mode to be able to tune below 32hz on the VSAM. You may be able to use it because of the harmonic, but it isn't working on the fundamental.

[bbocaner]

Then how can you fault the tuner?

Because there's another tuner on the market that CAN stay locked in on my pitch and gives me a display that I can use?

I said they aren't SO great in the extreme low range of the tuba, but are perfectly fine for everything above 8' C. (two lines below bass clef staff)

All I'm trying to say is that in my experience, the petersons were often frustrating in this register where I've had nothing but good luck with the turbo tuner.

[bbocaner]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-FVkemD_ps
Just filmed this in the shop with my phone, it starts at 8' C (64hz), and I do my best to dial down by a C major scale to 32' CCCC. (a few missteps, sue me)

The tone generator mode is not the same as the tuning mode, where you have to put it in bass shift mode to go that low. CCCC may not be all that useful, but BBB is (and you need that mode for anything below CCC) -- that's the lowest string on a 5-string bass or a CC tuba pedal plus second valve.

[k001k47]