Playing loud

[sffz]

I have seen a tendency for many younger players to come through buzzing the lower lip against the upper lip which kills resonance and gives that harsh tone. The upper lip should be vibrating against the lower lip in most embouchures but many younger players are not instructed on this in the beginning and it makes it a little harder to change over to an embouchure that is more resonant and doesn't go harsh on you.

Roger,
Can you expand on this? Are your talking of overbite vs. underbite? I am sorry but I am having a hard time visualizing this concept. I want to know more.

Randy

[Roger Lewis]

What I am referring to is a current trend that I have noticed for many younger players to be buzzing the lower lip instead of the upper lip. This is usually with a traditional overbite. I have not had any students with an underbite to see the differences but imagine that an underbite would lead to a lower lip buzzing that would be more successful.

Buzz your lips without a mouthpiece and find the direction that your air is going. If the air is going upward when you are buzzing without the mouthpiece, then you are most likely letting the wrong lip do the work. I inherited a bunch of students from another teacher one year and they all had this rather strident, unpleasant sound. I could not for the life of me figure out what was going on. I placed corks between their upper and lower molars to make sure that they had their jaws open and it did not help.

Finally I put them on a visualizer and had them buzz and found that they were all using and upstream air - meaning the lower lip was doing the buzzing. I have found that using the lower lp kills resonance of the instrument, creates a rather unpleasant sound espeically loud in the low register and it was very edgy.

Check this out to see this is the direction of your air stream and let me know. If it is what's going on there are some exercises I developed for my students that will correct it in about 2 weeks or so. I had one student accomplish the transition overnight and came back playing extremely well with a great sound. Every now and then he would slip, but he was able to easily recognize when it happened and correct it.

Right now I'm at home catching up on some honey-dew projects that have been neglected for a while because I was too busy with WWBW. Once I get these caught up, I'll look to see where I can land to get back nto the swing of things with all my friends. If you need to reach me just give me a yell on my cell phone 269---506---5312 and I'd be happy to chat. If I don't get the phone it probably means I'm up on a ladder correcting some ceiling cracks in the family room while getting it ready to paint.

All the best to you all.

Roger

[Roger Fjeldet]

As said earlier in this post: It`s all about air control.
What is playing loud?
Well a good definition is: As much air as possible through the mouthpiece (and instrument) as fast as possible
BUT (and a big one), Do NOT change the embochure - just the air speed.
If you can manage to control the air at fast speed you probaly can control it at low speed, and then you also can play soft
Roger

[markaustinhowle]

There is a flute tonal study by Louis Moyse that applies well to any wind instrument:

Start with the easiest note to produce a good tone (3rd or 4th partial open tone (G or C for CC tuba or F or Bb for BBb tuba) and then work downwards chromatically to your bottom note, then go back to the first note and work up chromatically to your top note.

Use the following rhythm and slur when changing notes: Dotted half, quarter then whole note. Play the dotted half and quarter on the first note, then the whole note a half step below (or above, depending on which direction you are progressing), then repeat the pattern on the same two notes. Move down one half step, (or up) and repeat the process, etc.

Start each eight-count set at a dynamic level of Piano and crescendo for the full eight counts to Fortissimo. Don't go to a louder level than you are able to produce with a good tone. (Most people don't want to hear a bad tone ever.) If people are saying you sound bad when you think it sounds good, then that's an indicator that you need to listen more critically to yourself.

This exercise gives you the opportunity to learn to "carry" your best tone to the extremes in both volume and range.

Practice it every day, and focus on both tone and pitch. The volume (and range) will come IF you make tone your priority.

[SFA Tubajack]

While it has its critics, I think one good place to start is breathing exercises and specifically, The Breathing Gym program (http://patricksheridan.com/store/index. ... ex&cPath=1). It's designed for younger brass students by pros Sam Pilafian and Pat Sheridan.

Using The Breathing Gym along with The Brass gym (http://www.justforbrass.com/the-brass-g ... 114218.cfm) have made a significant improvement in my playing. They work to give you an overall smoother sound with a dark, rich tone while improving your ability to maintain control of your tone at all volume levels.

Also Snedecor's Low Etudes for Tuba (http://www.justforbrass.com/low-etudes- ... 115944.cfm) develops your airflow to accommodate for the large volume of air needed for your low register. Using that type of airflow for your middle and upper ranges improves tone and control over your sound.

[TexTuba]

Also Snedecor's Low Etudes for Tuba (http://www.justforbrass.com/low-etudes- ... 115944.cfm) develops your airflow to accommodate for the large volume of air needed for your low register. Using that type of airflow for your middle and upper ranges improves tone and control over your sound.

If you like those, you'll LOVE these:

http://www.kfsbrasschamber.com/Etude-Books.html

[luke_hollis]

My two cents. When I have played on a Helleberg or similar mouthpiece in the past (because Hey, it's a Helleberg, right?), it is too large and flabby in the low register. I moved to a PT 50 that has a good size deep cup but a narrower throat. The slight increase in back pressure from the narrow throat provides for a healthier buzz and has helped tighten the sound up a lot.

Plus good, deep breathing of course.

[tubaman1019]

I always had the same question, how can i play loud and not sound like a b-52. A grad bass trombonist told me, " its not about playing loud, but playing full". Try thinking of the sound coming from the bottom of your gut and just covering the room, hall, etc. like a giant blanket with your sound. This is what I imagine when im playing "loud"

[iiipopes]

I agree with all the above, especially from Roger and bloke. I can't emphasize enough that playing loud is not an end in itself. Playing with good intonation, tone, proper embouchure, proper fundamentals, etc., is the goal, and dynamics will come from there.

There is one point I must add. I also played a Wick 1L on my Miraphone for awhile. The extreme funnel cup and large throat of this mouthpiece was designed for one instrument: the Besson compensating BBb tuba. That throat will suck the air right out of you and give no feedback as to proper embouchure, breath support or other fundamentals.

Frankly, for the time being, until you get more experience and development with your embouchure, I would consider two things:
1) keeping in mind all the good advice from above, get a good private teacher, and
2) since you probably have to use one mouthpiece for both concert and marching band, get something like a Conn 7B which has a slightly shallower funnel that will work well with both the tuba and the souzy and isn't too expensive, and can help give you some physical feedback as to what is actually happening when you go over the edge, so you can come back from the edge and work on good fundamental embouchure placement, tone and breath support.

If you're the loudest player in your section, then that's not necessarily a good thing when you have to blend to be a good tuba section.

[tubaforce]

Hi!
A few posters mentioned "back pressure" in their comments, and the importance of it in producing tone can not be understated. Your embrochure needs the proper amount of back pressure to "tune" and balance against. This is what enables "control", IMHO, along with embrocure strength and breath support, in an "equalateral triangle" of importance. We talk about "moving air through the horn" but that's only for visualization purposes! Once your stream of vibrating air leaves your mouthpeice, it, almost immediately loses all the pressure, leaving the sound waves you set up to travel through the rest of your axe! Yes, there is a "static pressure" that varies with the amount of tubing added, and affected by the shape of that tubing, but the air from your first measure's playing doesn't actually pass the bell of your horn for quite some time! I believe iiiPope's mentioned a "smoke test" in another post demonstarting this fact. Instead, the intensity and volume are determined in the mouthpeice cup, then subjected to the "X-Factor" your instrument represents! That's why the same player, using the same mouthpeice, sounds different from horn to horn. Concentrate on producing the "ideal" and appropriate airstream to acheive your desired result! That's where practice and a good Teacher come into play!

Al

[gnrguitar64]

thank you greatly for all the tips and tricks, im already starting on it. i dont have the money for a lesson teacher and ive tried recording myself, but all you know how bad tubas are with sound reacordes and cameras, right? and i dont think i can buy any type of online thing, i only have cash, no credit card or paypal or anything like that. i dont have the money for a new mouthpiece either (i kinda wanted to get a LOUD mouthpiece but those are pricey). ill get to work on everything right away

[gnrguitar64]

i always get told im the loudest in my section

What would happen if you weren't the loudest in your section ?

To the OP, shouldn't this be more of a question on how playing soft?
If you're being called out for playing loudest, the natural thing to do is to just back-off - treat all dynamic markings as one less than written...

You really haven't given any of us (or at least me) enough info...
Is this during concert band or marching band? Or maybe all the time?
How big is your oral cavity? Your lungs? Do you have an overbite or underbite? Have you always played the tuba or did you switch from another brass or other instrument?

There are so many things that could affect how you are playing... Just go practice more and if possible record yourself and then listen to it.

im sorry for not answering these sooner or being more specific in the first place. my tuba section is a 12 member section and in my band thers 3 of us. id say my oral cavity is pretty big, i can fit my wrist in it (i know im a freak). my lungs i have no idea about. i have braces actually and im trying to be corrected to have an overbite with rubber bands. i have always played tuba since my 6th grade and im in 10th grade now.

[gnrguitar64]

[/quote]

What would happen if you weren't the loudest in your section ?
Also, most of the great symphony players never play "Loud", they play "big" or "Powerful".
As to equipment, I don't know what a Dennis Wick 1XL is, but if it can play well normaly..............
I would guess you are trying to play too loudly and rotten tone is the result.

[/quote]

i guess that was what i was trying to ask, instead of playing louder, i shouldve said playing bigger with a better sound or with a more powerful sound.