1919 CC King Sousaphone

[Timswisstuba]

Here's a picture of an original CC sousaphone made by H.N. White in 1919. It is one of two that were made. I was the third owner of it. The first owner played in the Sousa band. I sold it to a man in California over 10 years ago and was wondering where it is now.

It plays really nicely and has the best low G (played 1-3 or 2-4) of any horn that I've played. The forth valve is a 2-3 combination. The sound is great and the intonation is typical from sousaphones of the 1920's.

Any information about where this sousa is now would be greatly appreciated.

CC King Sousa sullivan1.JPG

[SousaSaver]

AWESOME!!!

Do you have more detailed pictures you can post?

#4 is a 2+3 combination. So weird. I wonder if that was on purpose...

[TexTuba]

#4 is a 2+3 combination. So weird. I wonder if that was on purpose...

I think so. I remember reading about a horn Fred Geib owned that had the 4th valve set up and I believe Bill Rose had one as well. I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm mistaken.

[Mikelynch]

Quite a few European tubas from the early part of the 20th century had a M3 4th valve, rather than a P4th, particularly a number of the then popular Sanders tubas (which F. Geib, as well as the Hellebergs played, in the early part of that century).

Both Fred Geib's famous 5 valve rotary valve Conn CC (from his method book), as well as a 5 piston valve King CC and very small Sanders CC of his, all had that configuration. In the two 5 valve horns, the 5th valve was a P4th length. Switching fingering systems play the Ride on those horns can be quite mind-expanding.

Bill Rose had a really nice Sanders that he played in NY, and for several years in Houston. He often told me that having learned all of the excerpts on that system, he did not want to re-learn them all. So every time that he got a new horn (a Holton and several Mirafones), he had the 4th valve cut to the same configuration. Fortunately, at least on the Mirafones, a replacement 3rd valve slide is quite long, and will extend the cut forth receiver tubes to a P4th length (for those not ready to learn a new fingering system in the low range).

[imperialbari]

I have a German Martin 4RV CC tuba with a major third in the 4th loop. Playing arpeggios around the circle of fifths makes me wonder about the purpose of this layout. Not only is it different from the standard, but no fingerings become more in tune or easier to handle from the viewpoint of finger motion patterns. And then the range is cut a semitone also.

And no, it is not a matter of just pulling the 4th slide, at least not with my CC. The 4th loop is embedded in the main frame with a short slide of a non standard giganormous bore, so a slide extension would have to include two bends. Not worthwhile.

Klaus

[Timswisstuba]

I would say the 2-3 combination was intentional. The way the the valve circuit was wrapped, it seemed logical and fully intentional. Adding a modern 4th valve slide would make the crook protrude from the body.

I have only a few pictures of this horn. I first need to find the 35mm negatives, have them printed and then scan them into the computer. I'll be on the road to Holland and England, and I can't promise anything soon.

[Lee Stofer]

I'm working on re-engineering a Jupiter BBb sousa to CC, which I have hopes will be a good player. When it becomes a successful reality, I'll post photos.