Recording Tuba and Piano

[Tubainsauga]

I was wondering what your thoughts on recording tuba and piano. Over the summer I'm going to be experimenting with making some recordings of myself. I'll have access to a fair bit of equipment through friends and the AV department (where my friends also work) so keeping it simple/cheap isn't necessarily a requirement and would actually be a good learning experience.

My thoughts so far are not extremely complicated and would be to directly mic the setup with a stereo pair for ambient sound. This would be in a large multifunction room; large enough to rehearse an orchestra but also set up for chamber and solo recitals and has a very nice sound.

What I'm thinking:
3 microphones for the piano; two over the hammers and one near the bottom of the strings
A microphone over the tuba bell, a few feet up and off center
A stereo pair, away from the setup and up high, for ambient sound.

Any thoughts at all on this would be helpful. I've talked to a few people and they say this setup could yield pretty good results but so few people have recorded a solo tuba (and those who have haven't always done it well).

Also, what microphone would you recommend for a tuba. I've heard a number of people recommend a high quality kick drum mic if you're using it relatively close to the instrument. Thoughts?

[Tom]

If the mic'ing is stricly for recording purposes, don't close mic the piano. Instead, use a matched pair of omni condenser mics overhead, something like 6-8 feet away from the piano. Put the mics 4-6 feet apart and put the piano lid up. It's about backing up and allowing the sound to develop, because close mic'ing never sounds as natural in the recording setting. Close mic'ing is typically done for amplification purposes only to provide better sound isolation in a given channel.

I would also avoid a mic right at the tuba, and would take the same approach mentioned with the piano...back away. HOWEVER, you'll probably have the best luck with some sort of small diaphragm condenser microphones. I would not place the mic directly at or in line with the bell as that sound tends to be a bit "harsh" and lacks some overtones (IMHO) for recording purposes. Recording mics will also probably pick up some mechanical noise, if there is any, such as piston movement and breathing.

The first thing that I think you should try is to just use a pair of mics out in the room. I'd start at 10' or so from your setup and go by trial and error to find out the best placement. I've often found that best recordings come out of the most simple setups.

BUT, if you have the time and the access to the "toys," try a variety of things and then come back here and tell us what worked well. At the very least, I would be interested in hearing about it. Ribbon mics would be fun to try out for this, especially on the piano.

[Slamson]

I record a lot, and find it ironic that for me the most challenging instrument to mic is the horn, followed closely by the tuba.
Never let a microphone diaphragm see the inside of your bell (unless you're Gene and the mic is ten feet away in Orchestra Hall...). I've found that a good condenser (large diaphragms are best, but small ones work ok too) mic, just under the bell but pointing up to avoid mechanical noises give the instrument the presence it needs when mixed in with a stereo pair placed in the room environment (which varies with the size and acoustic qualities of the room). It doesn't take much from the presence mic to make the difference. Kick drum mics don't provide a wide enough frequency spectrum for the tuba (c'mon! we play above middle "C"!)

Same goes for a tight mic on the piano. One's usually enough. Stay away from the action, and rely on the resonance of the lid (assuming it's a grand of some sort). A good contact mic will absorb the resonance equally - a good condenser mic will need to be carefully positioned across the intersecting points of the strings to avoid favoring one register over another. If you just can't seem to avoid getting too much treble or too much bass, you might have to use two, but it's unlikely. Again, it doesn't take much.

The true test of the recording is how it is mixed together. If you're multitracking, it's pretty easy for you to go back and remix it. If not, somebody's going to be responsible for deciding the balance. Hope that person's not a pianist.