Denis Wick MP & Besson Eb's?

[Z-Tuba Dude]

Hey guys,

I just tried a DW3L on my 983, and liked the sound quality. It got me to thinking....is there a DW specifically designed for Eb's? I am looking for a smaller, chamber sound.

THANKS!

[TheHatTuba]

Hey guys,

I just tried a DW3L on my 983, and liked the sound quality. It got me to thinking....is there a DW specifically designed for Eb's? I am looking for a smaller, chamber sound.

THANKS!

The only MP i can think of directed at Eb's is the Imperial.

[AndyCat]

A LOT of pro's over here still use a Wick 3L on their EEb's. Others use a 24AW.

[opus37]

I've used the Denis Wick #3 and the #2. I they both have a rather deep bowl shape and open bore. The difference is the #3 has 31.25 inner diameter and the #2 a 32 mm diameter. I also played the Bloke Imperial. It has a 32.3 inner diameter (1A rim). It is shallower and a more conical cup. The back bore is less open than the Wicks. I think the sound is a little brighter with the Imperial. I liked the Bloke Imperial better when I play my Martin large sized Eb. When I play my Kanstul 66T, I like the Kanstul mouthpiece supplied with the horn. So, the difference in horns changes my mouthpiece preference. Good luck in finding what works for you and your Besson.

[ken k]

The story goes that John Fletcher used the Bach 24AW on his Eb and Denis Wick designed the 3/3L to be a similar mouthpiece. It has a fairly big bowl with a smaller diameter rim (minus the cushion rim of the 24AW). However Denis Wick could not get Fletch to switch. Not sure if this is a true story.

I do believe that the DW3/3L was designed with the Eb tubas in mind.

Isn't that the mouthpiece that used to come with the 983's?

ken k

[opus37]

The Denis Wick #3 and the 24 aw have the same specs so it is possible you are right. If you look at the Denis Wick advertising, they suggest the #3 and the #4 for Eb and F. The #4 has a 30.5 mm inner diameter.

[tuba.bobby]

I heard a story about Owen Slade having trouble with Denis Wicks when he had his Besson Eb at a younger age. Apparently he ended up switching back to his Kosicup...

Don't know how true that is, but I find Wicks quite lacking in colour, especially on my Besson, but that was just my experience.

But like the others said, I think the 3L was designed for the Besson Eb, I think at one time it was even supplied with them?

[Bandsman79]

According to Patrick Harrild (who should know) the Wick 3/3L was based on a 24AW.

IIRC he recommends the 24AW over the Wick 3 as he thinks the rim shape is better (caveat: his actual words may have been blurred by time and alcohol since I last had lessons with him quite a few years ago).

So I would say a 24AW is a good pairing with a Besson EEb for most people. I prefer my old shape (heavy) G&W Williwaw for most stuff but still pull my 24AW out of the bag for quintet work.

[peter birch]

I am having some fun with the Denis Wick 2SL mouthpiece, it give a noticeably brighter sound than my usual PT24+ and adds about a minor 3rd to my highest note
BTW the mouthpieces that come with Besson instruments are now made by Alliance marketed by Roger Webster
http://www.rogerwebster.co.uk/store/index.php?view=home

[tuba.bobby]

And what's left of York instruments are sold with with Wicks now.

I really like my Alliance for Euphonium and Bass Trombone, never tried one on Tuba though.

[modelerdc]

I had the Chance to meet Fletcher at a reception after a concert he played with Phillips Jones. He was asked why did he play on a Bach 24AW on the E flat tuba. He said when he started to play the tuba it was the biggest mouthpiece avialbable in England at the time. Asked why he didn't play the Wick mouthpiece, he said that whenever he played wick mouthpieces they hurt his face. Bear in mind that the Wick 3L is very much like a 24AW but with a narrower flatter rim. Asked why he played an E flat instead of an F tuba, he said when he started to play tuba that he had a good E flat but didn't have an F tuba! It's also known that later on Fletcher started using a Holton CC (still using the E flat too!) and that Arnold Jacobs gave him a vintage Conn Helleberg for use on it. Bach to the E flat. If you look up on utube you can find some videos of Fletcher playing solos with what looks like a Conn 2 in the E Flat. Also I've heard that the Wick 3SL was developed for Sheridan to use on the 983, even though he went with the Dillon mpc. It would be interesting to know if this is true. At any rate the 24AW/3L represent the attempt to get as broad a sound out of the E flat to make it a versitile all around tuba, and the Shallower 3SL or Sheridan Dillon mpcs represent the opposite, the desire to make the E flat a solo instrument with a brillant upper register.

[iiipopes]

If the Wick 3L works for you, go for it. Everything else is a preference of rim shape. To me, the Wick 2 cup was grainy sounding, although my son gets a good tone out of one. You can experiment for the next decade and not get any better than a Wick 3. You will get some other good ones, like a good 24AW, but you could try two dozen 24AW's and they each would feel and sound slightly different.

As far as a Boosey/Besson Eb, I still like the old Imperial/New Standard 15 inch bell to blend with a BBb. If I were told to play a Sovereign, I'd still use the 17 inch bell and the smaller lead pipe, because I think the 19 inch bell and larger leadpipe are just too tubby sounding, and on this particular variant, I'd consider using something like one of Mike Finn's #4 to get a completely different tonality out of the tuba.

[sousaphone68]

hello I use a DW 2 with my Besson new standard the 981 in my band came with a DW1L though I have seen others with a besson 24w bach clone, and a clone I bought came with DW2L copy I prefer the clean clear sound I get with my DW to the rounded sound I get on my sousaphone using a besson 24w or a kelly 24.
The rounded rim on the besson/bach and kelly are more comfortable to play continously on but I still prefer my DW when i started learning tuba I used a DW5 on a Boosney Hawkes imperial I could not use such a small mp now.