Trumpet concerti on tuba

[MartyNeilan]

Printed out and been practicing the Haydn and Hummel trumpet concertos (concerti?) tonight on my son's 12J. They are obviously great pieces of music, and very playable on tuba. The Hummel works particularly well and would probably sound great on an Eb tuba. We don't hear too often of tuba players performing these works,I wonder why not?
Marty "who grew up listening to Wynton's recordings of these"

[Todd S. Malicoate]

I'm sure many will disagree with my opinion, but I don't like the "thickness" that is created when the pieces are transposed down two octaves.

Writing solo pieces for the tuba in it's register requires a certain amount of nuance to be successful. These pieces obviously weren't written with that in mind.

[finnbogi]

I practised and performed a lot of "borrowed" concerti, sonatae and other pieces while I was still at music school, mostly because I was not exactly thrilled with most of the original music for tuba. Although I agree that much of this music sounds somewhat silly to those that are familiar with the original versions (as does a bass singing 'Der Hölle Rache') it is both musically challenging and immensely enjoyable to play.

Regarding trumpet concerti: The Telemann concerto (originally for trumpet in D) also works nicely on a E flat tuba.

[J.c. Sherman]

The accompanying score plays a role in this as well. Haydn and Hummel, both wonderful works and fun to practice, do tend to be muddy because they lie mostly in the lower range of the Eb trumpet; so they actually sound like Bb trumpet parts 2-8vb on the tuba. Mud. And while these works were written to showcase a newly chromatic instrument, they still are very much written idiomatically for a trumpet - fanfarish writing, etc.

We are not them.

There are some trumpet works that work; The Sachse concertino, written with Brass Band accompaniment, sounds nice. Most of the really exhibitionist, acrobatic display works, such as those by Clarke, Llewellyn and others work fairly well. But I've found that for the money range of the tuba, horn literature - down only 1 octave, works considerably better... and the later, more chromatic the work, often the better result. Beethoven works, but Strauss (as we know) works very well! Our instruments are actually very similar in many ways.

I'm currently working on the Haydn on my new D tuba. It still amazes me how well horn music works.

J.c.S.

[oldbandnerd]

This topic reminds of this recording of our own Charley Brighton a.k.a - highams playing his arrangement of an unaccompined flute solo. It works sooooo well. Charley has told me he always looks at music written for other insturments that can be adapted for euphonium.

Dancing Night Wind - Unaccompianed Flute Solo by David Benning - http://www.acidplanet.com/components/em ... 315&T=6376" target="_blank

[cjk]

...
I'm currently working on the Haydn on my new D tuba....

Care to elaborate on "new D tuba"?

[imperialbari]

We, of all musician, should know about the importance of an non-compromised bass line.

Already the second note of the main theme entry of the tuba version of the Haydn concerto has the tuba below the celli. If the string bass section, against normal Haydn performance practices, isn’t strengthened considerably, we will hear chord inversions not intended by Haydn.

Klaus

[J.c. Sherman]

We, of all musician, should know about the importance of an non-compromised bass line.

Already the second note of the main theme entry of the tuba version of the Haydn concerto has the tuba below the celli. If the string bass section, against normal Haydn performance practices, isn’t strengthened considerably, we will hear chord inversions not intended by Haydn.

Klaus

That entry is in unison with the fiddles (and the first note's lower still). Celli Bassi tacet. Generally, the two lower pitches in the concerto are the low Concert D and A, I & V, so never really used in inversion by Haydn in this work. Most of the work is quite high, actually. It's a work rather light on handstopping for the time.

[J.c. Sherman]

...
I'm currently working on the Haydn on my new D tuba....

Care to elaborate on "new D tuba"?

I purchased a King medium Eb, and like all of these I've tried (with proper mouthpiece and everything) this one was very, very flat - diabolically so. So this time, I added a little plumbing instead for D. The valve slides were no longer flat and it plays very, very well. And it allows easy reading and tuning of the Mozart and Haydn concerti. Knechtel is next!

J.c.S.

[MartyNeilan]

Good feedback so far. While I have been amusing myself playing them solo and unaccompanied, there are probably at least a few ramifications to doing this with full accompaniment. *
At least it gives me a chance to appreciate good music I would otherwise only hear on a recording.


* (Not that it has ever stopped a few tubas players from playing Carnival of Venice with band or orchestra, admittedly a piece with significantly less musical depth, but still another trumpet staple.)

[J.c. Sherman]

otoh, there are plenty of bad pieces written specifically for the tuba.

Sadly this is very, very true.

[imperialbari]

We, of all musician, should know about the importance of an non-compromised bass line.

Already the second note of the main theme entry of the tuba version of the Haydn concerto has the tuba below the celli. If the string bass section, against normal Haydn performance practices, isn’t strengthened considerably, we will hear chord inversions not intended by Haydn.

Klaus

That entry is in unison with the fiddles (and the first note's lower still). Celli Bassi tacet. Generally, the two lower pitches in the concerto are the low Concert D and A, I & V, so never really used in inversion by Haydn in this work. Most of the work is quite high, actually. It's a work rather light on handstopping for the time.

I spoke of the trumpet concerto in Eb (should have made that clear, but then this thread has a title). Haven’t looked at the horn concerto.

If the tuba as soloist has a note, which cannot act as the root of the chord, then the bass line below the tuba note shall have sufficient sound output to balance the tuba. Part of the classical and early romantic styles is about quite formulaic bass lines. Distort these formulas, and the music starts sounding very odd.

Klaus

[J.c. Sherman]

Ah! Now I understand - and agree with - you!

J.c.S.

[imperialbari]

Actually recording orchestra had a secret trick, which might be applicable (with great discretion) in situations where a tuba performance of trumpet concerti would be wanted.

Old microphones caught the string basses less efficiently, so they were doubled by a contrabass tuba. Letting a contrabass tubist support the string basses discretely in the solo passages might solve the potential balance problems between the solo and bass lines.

Klaus

[J.c. Sherman]

Actually recording orchestra had a secret trick, which might be applicable (with great discretion) in situations where a tuba performance of trumpet concerti would be wanted.

Old microphones caught the string basses less efficiently, so they were doubled by a contrabass tuba. Letting a contrabass tubist support the string basses discretely in the solo passages might solve the potential balance problems between the solo and bass lines.

Klaus

Given my predilection for performing acrobatic trumpet pieces, I'll have to give this a try!