JinBao 410 CC clone Youtube Demo

[MackBrass]

Here are a few things I put together. Keep in mind that this is on a horn that I have played only a few times but it shows how even it is. The excerpts are a little rough as I have not had a CC to play in well over a year, but this at least gives you an idea of the capabilites that this model offers. Hope you enjoy as you have been a great audience.

Bordogni #10
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2s3W567t0a4" target="_blank" target="_blank

Ride with a short warm-up
http://www.youtube.com/user/hthomasmcgr ... 139dSZU-fE" target="_blank" target="_blank

Opening to Die Meistersinger
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=luQfVXzHtrA" target="_blank" target="_blank

Fountains of Roma
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nuoRtl_ ... re=related" target="_blank" target="_blank

[Tom Coffey]

Bravo!

[SousaWarrior9]

Nice! I hope I can sound as good on this horn when I get it!

[MackBrass]

lol

Nice! I hope I can sound as good on this horn when I get it!

I thought you were going to say " i hope I sound that good when I get old"

lol

[tubaforce]

Hi, Tom!
Nice job! Obviously this promotes our JinBao's, but should be very helpful to any Tubenetter considering a Tuba on a budget...I'd really like to hear a side by side comparison of a 186, a188, and the 410 by the same player. A friend of mine, who will remain unnamed, liked the 410, but commented it lacked some of the "subtleties" inherent in the real thing. I'm thinking maybe the low ceiling at his place may have been part of the "lacking", but this person has spent a lot of time behind Miraphones for DECADES, and would surely feel any differences blindfolded with the Tuba(s) on a stand!!!
That said,
The sound of the 410 was warm and full, and not near as "edgey" as the JinBao 200 BBb! Seems like this clone can take a bit more pushing than the 200...I have a client waiting on a 410-S, and he has my Cerveney 686, so I'll see if he can post someting on each of those.

Al

[Wyvern]

I'd really like to hear a side by side comparison of a 186, a188, and the 410 by the same player.

So would I - would be very interesting!

Well played again Tom

[MartyNeilan]

A friend of mine, who will remain unnamed, liked the 410, but commented it lacked some of the "subtleties" inherent in the real thing...

The question would be, then, which "real thing"?
The 186 has gradually changed over the years, and different attributes can be applied to the sound and response depending on the vintage. I personally prefer the older thinner horns with the smaller bells.
The clone, IMHO, is slightly less response and less resonant than the average phfone, but makes up for it by having a higher edge threshold. The4se qualities often seem to be at odds with each other, especially on smaller to medium sized horns. The blokepiece solo mouthpieces seem to work well for a more colorful sound on the clones.
I don't like playing a 18x that becomes a chainsaw after FF, as many of the phfones were apt to do, so I DO like what the clone has to offer.

[MackBrass]

A friend of mine, who will remain unnamed, liked the 410, but commented it lacked some of the "subtleties" inherent in the real thing...

The question would be, then, which "real thing"?
The 186 has gradually changed over the years, and different attributes can be applied to the sound and response depending on the vintage. I personally prefer the older thinner horns with the smaller bells.
The clone, IMHO, is slightly less response and less resonant than the average phfone, but makes up for it by having a higher edge threshold. The4se qualities often seem to be at odds with each other, especially on smaller to medium sized horns. The blokepiece solo mouthpieces seem to work well for a more colorful sound on the clones.
I don't like playing a 18x that becomes a chainsaw after FF, as many of the phfones were apt to do, so I DO like what the clone has to offer.

One thing i do like much better than the miraphone is that you can push the clone much more and it will not go over the edge so playing FF still sounds good. The two of the three 186 tubas I have owned in the past were both blat machines. These clones seem to fit much better in the higher dynamic ranges. As to the sound, I think the sound is great on the clone, especially with the 17.75" bell, very consistant and smooth to play.

The one 186 that I owned that was not a blat machine was built in 1966. This horn was great but had one big issue, difficult to play in tune. At the time I had that horn, I also owned an Alex 163 and found myself using the Alex for all my quintet work. Yes the Alex was one of the exceptions as far as tuning goes.

Marty, you make a great point as to what vintage of 186 would be the best comparison to the clone? Who knows?

[bisontuba]

Hi-
You MUST try the 410 in a big hall--having used a lacquered 410 CC (stenciled by a certain mid-west dealer, which I have now sold) filling in with the Buffalo Philharmonic, all I can tell you is that it is a projecting machine!! Not edgy, but it just projects like a 6/4--I have had folks listening in the hall tell me it was like tuba vrs. the orchestra--even though it is just a 4/4 CC--I am really curious what the silver version will be like in a big hall. They play very easy, and as I stated above--this is no B.S.--you will not believe the projection of the horn.

mark

[MackBrass]

Hi Mark,

I think you are right on the money as to filling up a big hall. I played the demo recordings in a decent sized recital hall and there was no problem with projecting to the back end. Sound is great and it is very easy to play.

[Wyvern]

How did you find the valve action Tom? On one I tried in Beijing I thought the keys rather widely spaced. Think I may either get bent in closer, or stick coins on keys to reduce spread if I keep one for my own use.

On the projection, I wonder if the slightly smaller valve bore against Miraphone makes a difference? Would certainly change expansion profile.

[tubaforce]

Hi!
I have a wide hand, so I haven't had any issues with paddle spacing...
I agree somewhat with Tom and Marty about the "blat" factor of 186's, but it is controlable. My Cerveney 686 will take a bit more before the tone spreads, but will "blat" if I'm not controlling the Tuba at the MP!
A 187/188 is a horse of a different color. The axes I've tried will allow some "edge", but I found I didn't have to work as hard to control the sound, and those bigger bows and bell flair make those models a more versatile instrument, IMHO! When I hear another player on a 187 or 188, the sound says "German" but with considerably more warmth than a 186, especially at forte and louder!

Al

[tubaforce]

The 410 is closer to a 188 than a 186. I'll try to post pics when I have all three 186,188,410 available at the same time. The piston clone was panned by several posters, and I will only order one on the condition you keep it! MM will sell you one, but if he's denying there are any problems, the horn is likely unchanged! That's too bad, as I'm reasonably sure MM had a hand in several of the recent clones' developement. MM had as close to an "exclusive" as one gets in China for months before Laabs started carrying that model, so yes, they must have some influence at the JinBao factory. I get the idea that the factory is content to leave a given model as is, rather than address any issues. This is one of the major differences I see between Jinbao and other facories such as Jupiter, Yamaha, and Miraphone, to name a few! The 410 CC, 800BBb, 700 EEb, and even the 600F Tubas all perform well, but they'll never be tweaked by the factory either, IMHO! Two of the other factories Neptune visited this spring seemed much more receptive to constructive criticism, so hopefully any "new" offerings will be developed with input from distributors and players...

Al

[bort]

Yes, a 186 or even a 188 will "bark" at you when you push it beyond a point. The 184 can really peel some paint if you want it to.

But I think it's more about control than anything else. It can be made to bark, but you don't have to make it bark. Relax and let the tuba do the work. Projection and loudness are different things...you will be heard just fine on a 186/8.

I should clarify, I'm not ragging on anyone's playing, or saying anything bad about people for whom the 186 does not work. Just that I've owned several different types of tubas now, and tried many more than that... and for me, the big thing has always been figuring out what the tuba needs from me to make things happen. Some need a lot of steering and pushing around. Some are point and shoot. Play the wrong tuba the wrong way, and you'll think it's trash. Play it the right way and it's gold. That's why it's so important to try it and see what works for you personally!

[MartyNeilan]

Hi-
You MUST try the 410 in a big hall--having used a lacquered 410 CC (stenciled by a certain mid-west dealer, which I have now sold) filling in with the Buffalo Philharmonic, all I can tell you is that it is a projecting machine!! Not edgy, but it just projects like a 6/4--I have had folks listening in the hall tell me it was like tuba vrs. the orchestra--even though it is just a 4/4 CC--I am really curious what the silver version will be like in a big hall. They play very easy, and as I stated above--this is no B.S.--you will not believe the projection of the horn.

mark

I am wondering if some (any?) of that has to do with the fact that a clone felt much heavier in my lap than did a German made 186.

[tubaforce]

I don't want to open the weight debate again! But the 410's bigger bows (v.s. a 186), and bell flair are what accounts for the difference in sound/feel, IMHO!
Al

[tubamlb]

There you go again! knockinjg the new 5/4 CC 5 valve because you havent been able to buy this model to sell

Rave reviews from all the universities and persons that have bought
the new TU 4500 5/4 5 valve

Great value ,

Michael

[RRW]

****

[MikeMason]

We need some reviews by players we trust...

[RRW]

Well said.