Wooden Bell

[Ace]

I wonder if a wooden bell would work on a tuba? Seems to work well on this trombone.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pVSlSfj ... re=related" target="_blank

Ace who has no idea how or why wooden bells are made

[SplatterTone]

Then, there is the Alpine horn made entirely of wood. Quite nice sounding.

[Michael Bush]

A good turner with good equipment could do that out of solid wood. From the little glimpse you can get in the video, that's what I think was done.

[corbasse]

I've read a newspaper article many years ago of a Dutch guy who built a completely wooden flugelhorn, only the valves were made of brass. The article also described some of the building techniques he used. After a quick google it seems that the online references I can find end in dead links though

[Dan Schultz]

.... knowing how thin metal is on a trombone bell, similarly thin wood would make me very nervous.

A bell doesn't have to be thin to amplify sound.

I've often thought that tubas are made of brass simply because it is an easy material to work with. A bell could be made of concrete. It's the form that counts. Any material of reasonable hardness that it doesn't sap the energy out of sound waves will work.

[Donn]

If you do look at the video, in first few seconds you get a fairly close look at it. Stop the action at 4 seconds or so and admire the alternating bands of different colored wood about where the bell starts to flare out.

There's glue involved, all right, but it started as a stack of ca. 1 inch thick pieces of solid hardwood, glued together. From there it must have been turned to get that shape, don't ask me how. Maybe you could do 80% of the bell flare on an ordinary lathe.

Interesting that the interior is black, which is the hard part to carve and also the acoustically important part. Might have molded it.

[Michael Bush]

Except for the interior taper. There would be no way to turn that portion from a solid block.

Well, it certainly wouldn't be easy. But any turner who has the skills and equipment to do long hollow forms could do this also. For example: http://www.edswoodturning.com/2011/01/3 ... llow-form/ Obviously the average hobbyist bodger isn't going to do it in his garage.

I like the idea of bricklaying the blank for the bell flare itself.
Edit: durn iphone.

[toobaa]

Here's a bell already formed (top center): http://www.cuttingedgewoodturning.com/vases.php Asthetics-wise for an instrument, YMMV. This turner, although good, is not unique.

[Dan Schultz]

.... I never said a bell had to be thin to amplify sound. ....

I know. .... what I was trying to say is that the thickness of the material doesn't make as much difference at the form. Of course, whatever the material... it needs to be rigid enough to keep it's shape.

[TheHatTuba]

I get the carbon fiber idea that Daellenbach used but what would be the point of wood?

[Michael Bush]

I get the carbon fiber idea that Daellenbach used but what would be the point of wood?

At this stage I think the point is that it looks cool (that is, unexpected).

Bloke is right: *that* guy does sound good in *that* video on *that* horn. Wood is a lot less predictable than brass (which is unpredictable enough).

You'd have to be either very lucky or an extraordinary expert in the acoustics of wood and a very able and well equipped turner to make a living selling such things as serious instruments that compete head to head with brass.

The attraction, IMO, is that it so unexpectedly sounds so good. If you could manage expectations to keep them in the realm of the "fun factor" it could be an interesting thing to spend some time on.

[Michael Bush]

There's glue involved, all right, but it started as a stack of ca. 1 inch thick pieces of solid hardwood, glued together. From there it must have been turned to get that shape, don't ask me how.

Sorry I didn't notice your post 'til now, Donn. You are right. The hard part of this is cutting the segments accurately and gluing them together so all those end-grain joints match up with no air between. Getting the finished blank "turned to that shape" is the easy part!

[Rick Denney]

If it's a layup of plywood, then it will be plastic in any direction of compression of the wood fibers. It will be elastic in tension. Wood has very poor compressive strength when in thin strands along their length, but much better across the strands. But then the plastic binder will be doing much of the work.

Laying up a wood bell would be similar to laying up a carbon composite bell, except that wood is not as strong and must therefore be thicker. But with the right wood it could be done.

The vibration and resonance of the material is generally at high frequencies and affects tuba sound least of all. My fiberglass Martin sounds like a tuba (actually, it has a nice warm sound, though intonation is not perfect). A plywood layup would be structurally similar.

Rick "thinking a wood tuba could be quite gorgeous" Denney

[Donn]

If it's a layup of plywood

... but it isn't, right?

[bbocaner]

It's not layed-up construction or bent, it's turned from two pieces which are glued together. The black inside is painted, a nod to the fact that this maker doesn't buff out the oxidation from annealing on the inside of their brass trombone bells, it's their gimmick. The lines you're seeing down the length of the bell is natural figuring in the "tiger" maple they used.

[sousaphone68]

Here's a dude that has made an entirely wooden trombone including the mp does not sound great but you have to admire the wood working skill look at his other videos and you will see the steps in producing a valved trumpet
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzK50H2M ... ata_player" target="_blank

[J.c. Sherman]

It's not layed-up construction or bent, it's turned from two pieces which are glued together. The black inside is painted, a nod to the fact that this maker doesn't buff out the oxidation from annealing on the inside of their brass trombone bells, it's their gimmick. The lines you're seeing down the length of the bell is natural figuring in the "tiger" maple they used.

Thanks - I had a sense that would be the way; there's loads of historic precetence for doing it that way. You actually could do it in two longitudinal halves as well without turning at all, as with a serpent, but this looks clean and well made!

Putting together w wood tuba bell would be very costly, as finding pieces of hardwood that large for turning would be VERY expensive!

Could be a fun project for a King removable bell

[Rick Denney]

If it's a layup of plywood

... but it isn't, right?

Dunno. I am rarely where I can watch videos. But there was discussion of using that technique, and I was discussing the consequences. Personally, I think that's a better way to go than turning from solid wood, which will have a range of assymetries and weaknesses (structural, that is).

Rick "not thinking a tuba sound needs or will include much contribution from the vibration of the wood" Denney

[Donn]

For strength and durability, I think once you decide to do a wood bell, you're doomed either way. At least the way they do it does involve some lamination, rather than one single piece of wood, which should make it a little less likely to split on its own with humidity changes.

[MileMarkerZero]

Make it out of Brazilian Walnut aka Ironwood. It'd weigh more than brass, but you wouldn't hurt it easily. Of course, you'd also spend a fortune on turning tools...laid a 16x16 deck made of the stuff. Went through 4 saw blades.