High false tones?

[ghmerrill]

I'm afraid that this question will expose either ineptitude or incompetence on my part, but it's irritating enough that I have to ask it. I'm totally self-taught in tuba/brass, but decided to pick up the tuba in the early 90s. Started out on a used Yamaha 321S Eb with a funky tuning slide trigger for a couple of years, then got the Cerveny BBb when I felt the Yamaha (which I wish I still had) wasn't doing the job in community band. I played for about three more years and then was unable to keep it up for about the next 15, but am getting back to it now (and it's taking WAY longer to get the embouchure back in shape than I thought it would). Things are going well, but ...

Now that I have my embouchure reasonably well developed (working primarily on the low range first), I am moving to work on the higher range. That's doing well too, except that I discover I am able to easily play a number of "fake" notes that I don't recall playing before. These are all near the top of the staff. So with 1+2 I can play the expected G, but also an F (that tends to be flat but otherwise doesn't sound bad and can be lipped up without too much effort to be in tune). With 1 I can play the Ab and also a Gb, and with 2 I can play the A and also a G. The tone quality on these alternative notes is, as I say, not bad. It's like the instrument would really like to be chromatic at that point, but it seems to me a little low for that to be happening. The only stuff I have seen on "fake notes" always pertains to the low register. So I'm curious about what is going on.

This phenomenon seems to be completely independent of mouthpiece, and I just don't recall it happening when I was playing years ago (same horn and two of the same mouthpieces). Is this a common phenomenon of BBb tubas? Or is it just an artifact of currently imperfect embouchure and control? Speculations or rude comments are welcome.

[joh_tuba]

You've discovered the seventh partial.

On a BBb tuba it is a flat Ab which would ring beautifully in a perfectly stacked Bb major 7th chord but is otherwise just out of tune.

Fingering charts ignore the partial but it does exist. You will also eventually discover that you can play a fairly in tune C above the staff open and a VERY out of tune Eb above that also open. The higher you go in partials the closer the notes get together. If you double tongue quickly and have the range it's possible to fake a Bb major scale starting above the staff.

Trombonists make use of the 7th partial. In certain situations it can be helpful but it is not for general use.

Have Fun!

[ghmerrill]

Is this too much information...?? ' too wordy to follow...?? (Someone else can offer a clearer explanation, but the answer is that the 7th partial is a REAL overtone, and not a "false" one.)

Makes perfect sense. I'm just unsure why I hadn't stumbled on it previously. I had begun to think there was something living in the horn and changing the physics (which might be true as well, but pending further discoveries I'll stick with this more reasonable explanation).

[iiipopes]

I used to have a Besson 3-valve comp tuba that these partials were lippable in tune. Yes, I could play top space g 2nd valve and top space gb 1st valve.

[Dean E]

In fast passages, it may be easier to stay within the same partial--using alternate fingerings.

Norman Bewley's fingering charts show some of the alternate fingerings for standard, well-designed, well-maintained, and well-manufactured horns.
http://www.norlanbewley.com/tuba/fingering-tuba-2.htm" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank