New Miraphone Siegfried Kaiser BBb

[Wyvern]

Do you need a tuba that big and do you want to haul around something that big and bulky? Two very important questions for those of us who are "north of age 40" and not as physically fit as we once were.

If there is a market being developed for 6/4 tubas, I truly doubt this market would take amateurs into consideration

There are a few 6/4 (and larger = Jumbo) owners who are not in the flush of youth and manage fine. A friend of mine says it no more effort to carry his Neptune than his Eb, and it is no issue to me either

The whole point of a 6/4 is the rich broad tone they produce - a smaller tuba can never put a foundation under a band like a 6/4.

My guess is that far more 6/4 are sold to amateurs than professionals - the latter market is very small.

[imperialbari]

15 years ago I heard an estimate from a high end wind instruments maker saying that 95% of even the most expensive custom models were bought by amateurs. If the amateurs didn’t take this share of the market, it wouldn’t be cost efficient developing new models.

Klaus

[Bob Kolada]

The whole point of a 6/4 is the rich broad tone they produce - a smaller tuba can never put a foundation under a band like a 6/4.

But, thankfully, a smaller tuba will sound more like a musical instrument and less like a TUUUUBA. But you all know how I feel by this point.

Bob"who does like big tubas, for some things"Kolada

[TYA]

has anyone heard a comparison of some excerpts like the ride and fountains of rome compaired on BBb and CC? I only can find recordings on CC tuba.

[Mitch]

Played this horn today. Wow. Pictures to follow. But really, wow. It's big, it's fat, it has a great feel to it. I'm not sure I recall correctly, but I think it's going to be in the $15k range.

Man, does it resonate.

[Rick Denney]

Rick, amateurs that work in the corporate world and play in community bands, church groups,etc. around the country have more money to spend on 6/4 high end tubas than pros. Sort of like having a Shelby Cobra in the driveway to go back and forth to the grocery store.

I wrote that several months ago--I had to go back and remind myself what I wrote.

We are accustomed to thinking of amateurs as guys like me, for which the term "hobbyist" is most appropriate. We played in high-school bands and have continued to play in community bands. I suspect I define one extreme end of the hobbyist range, given the tubas that I own and play. But most hobbyists have one instrument and it is usually something not too unlike what they played in high school (or what they lusted after in high school). That's more likely to be something like a Miraphone 186. If they lust after a big tuba, it will probably be an old Conn BAT or a Cerveny kaiser.

And then we describe pros as folks who stayed in college until they won an audition.

But there are lots of amateurs in between these, many of whom have music degrees but who never found a gig and ended up making their living doing something else. They may play in community bands, but are more likely found in big-city wind-symphony groups. They often own and play C tubas, and they often make bigger investments in their instruments than hobbyists do, except for the more extreme hobbyists like myself.

I know many amateurs who were professionally trained and who play the crap out of whatever they own. They play the best instruments they can afford, and choose them with care, because they have the necessary discernment skills. They often buy their high-end instruments the ways pros often do: New, or previously owned only by other pros. Even guys like me do not fall into this category. I have some discernment skills, but not the willingness to drop that kind of cash, so I end up with deeply used instruments that passed through many more hands before coming to me.

Rick "who has a lot of tubas but only one bought new or nearly new" Denney

[Mitch]

First, I saw it...



Then, I had to try it...



I want one. To give a sense of scale, I'm 6'5". Just kidding. I'm 5'8". While it's quite large, it's well-balanced and not at all difficult to hold for someone of my average height, yet broad-shouldered frame. Were I to have one I played regularly, though, I would definitely look into getting a stand. It's a big mama. I've mentioned here before I have a Martin 6/4 BBb (front-action 4+1). The things I love about the sound of the Martin this horn has a ton of. If you're considering a rotary Kaiser, this is the horn. Period. Apples and oranges from the Fafner. I like the Fafner, but there's something about the way this horn feels when you play it. Velvety feel. I've always made my decisions about the way a horn feels to play, and this horn feels like something I want.

Big thanks to Roger Lewis, who couldn't have been a more gracious host.

My trip to the Miraphone booth was also my first chance to try a Petrushka F. LOVE it. It's my new $avings goal. What a fun little horn.

[Steve Marcus]

First, I saw it...Then, I had to try it...I want one... While it's quite large, it's well-balanced and not at all difficult to hold for someone of my average height, yet broad-shouldered frame. Were I to have one I played regularly, though, I would definitely look into getting a stand. It's a big mama. I've mentioned here before I have a Martin 6/4 BBb (front-action 4+1). The things I love about the sound of the Martin this horn has a ton of. If you're considering a rotary Kaiser, this is the horn. Period. Apples and oranges from the Fafner. I like the Fafner, but there's something about the way this horn feels when you play it. Velvety feel. I've always made my decisions about the way a horn feels to play, and this horn feels like something I want.

Big thanks to Roger Lewis, who couldn't have been a more gracious host.

My impression of the prototype 6/4 BBb at the Miraphone booth at Midwest is virtually identical to Mitch's (how did we miss each other today, Mitch?). However, I would also emphasize that the SOUND of the horn was big, warm, and full. Intonation was excellent--even the open D on the staff (5th partial) was in tune or very close. What's also noteworthy (pun intended) is that this tuba is not an air hog. It is so easy to play with surprisingly little effort for any tuba, let alone a big 6/4 horn. Even the low Eb (fingered 4-5) and below were manageable without too much effort.

I just didn't want to put it this tuba down. I came back to the booth two more times to either play this horn or watch/listen to someone else play it so that I could hear it from a vantage point other than under the bell.

I was surprised to see the horn was still there in the afternoon. Roger said that Tony Kniffen had planned to take it to play beside Gene at the CSO Brass concert. Indeed, both Gene and Tony liked the horn very much. But there was a concern about matching intonation with a BBb and CC without prior rehearsal, so Plan A (both playing CC's) was back on the table.

Ironically, the CSO York didn't cooperate. Gene made an announcement that (if I heard it correctly) the valve stem on the York broke 5 minutes before the show. There was at least one excellent brass repairman, Lee Stofer, at Orchestra Hall. But there just wasn't enough time before the performance to fix the horn. So Gene asked if there was anyone with a an excellent CC tuba located within a few minutes of Orchestra Hall. Matthew Lyons came through with a Nirschl 6/4 CC that he has on trial.

Bach to the Miraphone Kaiser BBb--I can't wait for the next opportunity to play this tuba. If my tuba buying allowance for this year weren't depleted, I'd very seriously consider buying it. It's just a totally satisfying experience to play.

[Bob Kolada]

I didn't realize that horn was this horn! I spent my Miraphone booth time wiggling my fingers on the piston F and honking out Prokofiev and such on a euphonium. I'll have to try the horn tomorrow! I like the 191/1291's but not so much the Fafners so I'm curious as to how it compares.
Giant 191= sweet!
Different manufacturer's thoughts being similar to what MW thought when making the Fafner= eh.

[Chuck Jackson]

I'm gonna buy a lotto ticket tomorrow.

Well spank me and call me Miranda, you ARE alive!!!! Where the hell have you been?

Chuck

[imperialbari]

Some heads are very hard to pullout of a donkey’s something.

K

[imperialbari]

Told Wanda you are gonna marry somebody?

How you manage all those dance jobs and also have a day job is beyond me. And school also?

K

[imperialbari]

Liberal women are wonderful. I guess she might even attend the wedding.

Klaus

PS: This of course all spells into a big congratulation to Wanda & Doc!

[Kevin Hendrick]

Yes, I told her, and she's ok with the idea.

Welcome back, Doc -- and congratulations!

[Lee Stofer]

I saw the "Siegfried" BBb at the Midwest Clinic in Chicago last month. It is a big horn, no doubt, and I listened to Roger Lewis play it. The instrument seems to play well in all registers, and particularly easy in the high register.

It is not a large as the Rudolf Meinl 6/4 BBb, but is closer to the size of a Fafner BBb or the Rudolf Meinl Bayreuth BBb.

[Tabor]

Ehhhhhhhhh.... doesn't look so big to me.

[Wyvern]

I played at Frankfurt. It is similar size I would think to Fafner, but of a quite different design. I preferred playing wise to the Fafner.

For a Jinbao copy. I very much doubt, so don't hold your breath waiting!

[tubaforce]

How is the Jinbao copy?

Look for the hand made copy in goldbrass! 6 years in developement, and a bargain at $7,500.00!