Lacquer Protection For New Horns

[rperrym]

I have read some comments about using Lemon Pledge on a new brass horn with a lacquer finish. One opinion was that the acid in the lemon scent could attack the finish. Can I get some input on what to use for a new horn with a lacquer finish?
Thanks,
Rick

[bort]

I've used both Windex or Lemon Pledge on tubas before (with regular old paper towels). Mostly in college, to keep the brand new sousaphones nice and shiny. Works very well, but be careful especially with Pledge -- it will be really slippery afterwards. Maybe even just polish the bell?

[Rick Denney]

It also depends on the lacquer. The old nitro-cellulose lacquer used on tubas (and probably still used on many tubas) could be damaged by hot water, and it's particularly susceptible to being worn off by sweaty skin. Yamaha, for one, uses epoxy-based lacquer that does not seem to suffer from these ills.

The best lacquer protection, though, is a hard case.

Rick "whose 20-year-old Yamaha still had good lacquer, occasionally cleaned with Pledge" Denney

[Dan Schultz]

I've used Pledge quite a lot. However... I like a coat of good automotive wax better. It takes a little longer but I think is superior.

[Jedi Master]

Bloke, do you know how Acrylic Lacquer holds up?

[ghmerrill]

Although I haven't yet applied it to my tuba, I have experimented on my old euph with Nu Finish and the results appear to be quite good. A lot of built-up crap on the surface was removed and a nice and lasting shine resulted. I expected this to be the case from having used Nu Finish on a number of plastic and clear-coated objects previously. So you might consider this as a possibility.

Before all the dire warnings start, let me just point out that there is a lot of inaccurate folklore about Nu Finish, largely due to its incorrect characterization (even by its manufacturer) as a "polish". It is not a polish and should rather be thought of as a cleaner and sealer. It contains no abrasives and is not a "polish" in the classic sense. It is a synthetic polymer sealant that leaves a protective coating on the surface to which it is applied. My experience with it previously (on everything from car finishes and headlight lenses to my bifocal eyeglasses) is that it also has the effect of "filling in" micro-scratches in the finish -- resulting in better protection and appearance. Take a look athttp://www.best-auto-detailing-tips.com/nu-finish.html for a reasonably accurate description of this stuff.

Its one downside from my point of view is that it is in fact pretty difficult to get totally "streak free", but sufficient rubbing with clean cloths will get you sufficiently close.

By the way, I now never use paper towels for any cleaning or polishing of any finishes I value. Most paper towels are quite abrasive and will dull a finish with accumulated micro-scratches over time. I finally learned my lesson after years of cleaning my eyeglasses with paper towels. I'm not sure how Nu Finish works on all surfaces, so as in any case involving applying anything like this to something valuable, caution and testing is important.

Just a thought. When I was a saxophone player many decades ago I used to spend time applying "lacquer polish" to the instrument. Useless.

[sloan]

I always thought the lacquer *was* the protection!

[ghmerrill]

I always thought the lacquer *was* the protection!

Well, copper or brass (unlike iron or steel) doesn't really need that much protection. It will also provide its own over time. I think the function of the lacquer is predominately aesthetic -- so the instrument can remain shiny and you don't have to polish it. So basically lacquer mostly "protects" the instrument from becoming unshiny. But being (at least historically) a relatively soft film, and not immune to its own chemical interactions, it immediately introduces its own problems. Which leads to the common colloquial translation of the three laws of thermodynamics: (1) You can't win; (2) You can't break even; and (3) You can't get out of the game.

I am very tempted to strip the remaining lacquer from my euph and try to get at least part way out of the game, but I'm a little fearful of exactly how that would work out. Messy, I'm sure.

[Rick Denney]

I always thought the lacquer *was* the protection!

Well, copper or brass (unlike iron or steel) doesn't really need that much protection. It will also provide its own over time.

You missed Sloan's point (as I imagine it). The lacquer does not protect the instrument. It protects your shirt sleeve.

Rick "who has several shirts with green patches on the sleeves" Denney

[Mark]

I guess you could coat your lacquer with lacquer to protect it. But, how would protect the second layer of lacquer.

[SplatterTone]

But, how would protect the second layer of lacquer.

With another layer, of course. I know an old woman who swallowed a fly ....

[sloan]

I guess you could coat your lacquer with lacquer to protect it. But, how would protect the second layer of lacquer.

wrap it in Cellophane(TM)?

[Mark]

I guess you could coat your lacquer with lacquer to protect it. But, how would protect the second layer of lacquer.

wrap it in Cellophane(TM)?

Hopefully, the lacquer would have cured completely first.

[ghmerrill]

You missed Sloan's point (as I imagine it). The lacquer does not protect the instrument. It protects your shirt sleeve.

Rick "who has several shirts with green patches on the sleeves" Denney

What protects my shirtsleeves (though I am often manly enough to forgo sleeves) is a leather wrap -- which protects the lacquer as well, and (I believe) makes my instrument appear to be ever more "professional". (I have thought of switching to vet wrap in decorator colors, but so far have resisted the temptation.)

But your point, and Sloan's, is well taken. It is also not just the visual appearance at issue, since I find that an instrument of raw brass seems to impart a certain odor to the hands that some of one's more refined colleagues may find unattractive.

[Mark]

What protects my shirtsleeves (though I am often manly enough to forgo sleeves) is a leather wrap -- which protects the lacquer as well...

I thought that most, if not all, leather wraps caused lacquer discolorization.

[ghmerrill]

I thought that most, if not all, leather wraps caused lacquer discolorization.

All I can tell you is that mine's been on the instrument virtually uninterrupted for about fifteen years and on the infrequent occasions I take it off (e.g., to reapply the velcro strips that hold it together) I can't see any discoloration or lines in the lacquer. I suspect this has to do with how the leather was tanned and what sort of (and how much) oil and dye is in it. But that's just speculation. I got my piece of leather from cutting up one of my wife's old hippy vests from the 60s. I don't have a piece on the top bow (which has a nickel guard on it), and there you can see a number of small "spots" of discoloration and some surface (or lacquer) degradation. There are a few of these elsewhere on the horn, which I can't really explain but I suppose may come from imperfections in the metal itself or from not wiping it down thoroughly after every use.

[sloan]

I thought that most, if not all, leather wraps caused lacquer discolorization.

All I can tell you is that mine's been on the instrument virtually uninterrupted for about fifteen years and on the infrequent occasions I take it off (e.g., to reapply the velcro strips that hold it together) I can't see any discoloration or lines in the lacquer. I suspect this has to do with how the leather was tanned and what sort of (and how much) oil and dye is in it. But that's just speculation. I got my piece of leather from cutting up one of my wife's old hippy vests from the 60s. I don't have a piece on the top bow (which has a nickel guard on it), and there you can see a number of small "spots" of discoloration and some surface (or lacquer) degradation. There are a few of these elsewhere on the horn, which I can't really explain but I suppose may come from imperfections in the metal itself or from not wiping it down thoroughly after every use.

What protects the leather wrap?

[sloan]

What protects the leather wrap?

There was an old lady, who swallowed a fly
I don't know why she swallowed a fly
Perhaps she'll die

...

[Mark]

What protects the leather wrap?

There was an old lady, who swallowed a fly
I don't know why she swallowed a fly
Perhaps she'll die

...

Joni Mitchell (I know it's a slightly obscure reference.)

[ghmerrill]

What protects the leather wrap?

The leather wrap is protected by the full faith and credit of the U.S. government.

Beyond that, and unlike the lacquer it is protecting, it is easily replaced.