jeopardymaster wrote:However, what comes to mind is that it was a DEG Commuter with a bell fashioned from a silver-sparkly composite. Upright bell, 3 top action valves.
I remember that instrument pictured in one of the books, now that you mention it. The idea was that the plastic bell would sit at home, and the brass bell at the school, and the student would only have to schlep the body back and forth.
The price you mentioned was twice what a Miraphone cost in the time frame being described, so I don't have any trouble at all understanding your reticence. I certainly paid far less for the Martin, and I suspect it's a far better instrument.
Rick "who still hasn't started the restoration" Denney
I love the transparency! If it were made of Lexan...isn't that stuff about indestructible, like you can shoot a shotgun at it and it doesn't break? That sounds perfect for schools. And colored transparent plastic, like the Kelly mouthpieces, in school colors....just perfect.
Three of them in a parade, one each in red, white, and blue.
Rick Denney wrote: I don't know of this particular instrument, but I have only heard of two fiberglass upright tubas that were ever produced. (I'm excepting one-off prototypes, especially the later carbon-composites). Glassl made a series of rotary tubas with fiberglass outer branches, but much longer ago (circa early 60's), Martin made fiberglass tubas.
The Martin was similar in layout to typical American 4/4 front-action piston tubas of the short, fat persuasion. The Conn 56J or King 2341 come to mind, except that the valves are on the diagonal, ala the older Conns. It's a smallish 4/4 tuba with a 20" bell and three valves. It plays rather well, considering it was intended as a relatively cheap student instrument. Does that ring a bell with your recollection of that photograph?
I would definitely be interested in a 6/4-size instrument like what Brian is prototyping. I'd like something that's easier to schlep than the Holton for outdoor gigs.
Rick "thinking these have earned serious consideration" Denney
I remember seeing what I think was a Reynolds fiberglass tuba in Dillon Music one time. I don't know if they were a regular factory item, but at least one was made.
When Brian and I corresponded about these last month, he said it would cost about $30K to do the tooling to put these into production.
Are there 30 TubeNetters who are willing to put up $1k to get these into production? I'm assuming after the tooling, there would be more cost to make a tuba body and then the cost of the valve set. Eventually, if they went into real production and hundreds were sold, there could be a return on the original investment. Maybe the opportunity to buy a tuba body for $500 would be enough return to start with? Then, $500 for a valve set from "somewhere" (ebay, used, 'offshore', E. Europe) and then the tinkering to put it together? A BBb or CC tuba for $2K that plays and has a certain novelty factor?
Maybe build a market with colored clear plastic sousys for college marching bands? Maybe even just colored clear bells for college bands? Imagine a half time show with clear sousy bells in school colors...
Wonder if someone who knows about that sort of thing could do a business/market analysis on the feasibility of the whole proposition...
I just got back from CA earlier this week and have been trying to find some time to post about my encounter with Mr. Brian Kane's plastic tuba. I figured I would resurrect a very old thread and add to its discussion. I was able to sneak away from the wife and infant for a little play test.
First off: Pitch - very close to a C tuba now. Brian was able to rework a few things, changed the taper slightly and the horn plays a tad sharp overall, but it is a global issue, not terrible for a prototype that has an overtone series in-tune.
The horn sounds very much like a tuba. I had a great satisfaction playing it in a parking garage where I could harmonize with the horn's own echos. A few specific notes did not speak efficiently (3rd partial (1st valve) F spoke poorly for me, while the E a half step lower (1&2 or 3rd valve) played perfectly fine... for that matter the F's on the horn across the range I tested the horn all felt "dead" ). I do not fault a design issue for this shortcoming, as I could identify two major leaks in the horn, one at the brass plastic junction and one where some sealant had failed at a juncture in the bows. Despite these leaks, the horn played acceptably in tune, and had a very "american tuba" sound. A blind test would not have alerted me to the fact the horn was plastic.
I feel that the horn has GREAT potential if it were in perfect shape. Any doubts about plastic as a brass substitute for aural reasons in my mind have been dispelled. Mass production & quality control would dispel my worries about leaks, and proper ferule design would go a long way towards my durability fears. The joints of this horn were glued end to end with no recessed lip to increase bonding surface area. The sound and scale are there!
I want to thank Brian for taking the time to drive up from Santa Cruz to visit me where I was staying in San Jose at the time. It was great to meet and talk with him. I wish we would have had a little time to grab a beer, but the meeting was short as he was just passing through on the way to Sacramento.
Hope we meet again Brian!
Ben Vokits
NYC/Philly area Freelancer
Nautilus Brass Quintet
Alex 164C, 163C, 155F; HB1P
Maybe it was the F#, why don't ya send me the horn and I'll make sure I got it right in the post I very well could be mis-remembering, regardless I believe it is a leak at a node.
Yes I forgot to mention that you had little difficulty playing the horn very well. It did sound great, you should definitely record that little bit and share!
Ben Vokits
NYC/Philly area Freelancer
Nautilus Brass Quintet
Alex 164C, 163C, 155F; HB1P
So Brian, when are you gonna put your plastic tuba into production?
I think it would be great to have a lightweight durable plastic tuba that sounds and plays well that is affordable & made here in the US. You just need the right contacts and marketing. The Brits already have the market on the p-bones, why cant we have the market on p-tubas? These would be great for schools and good for the local economy
Rick Denney wrote: I don't know of this particular instrument, but I have only heard of two fiberglass upright tubas that were ever produced. (I'm excepting one-off prototypes, especially the later carbon-composites). Glassl made a series of rotary tubas with fiberglass outer branches, but much longer ago (circa early 60's), Martin made fiberglass tubas.
The Martin was similar in layout to typical American 4/4 front-action piston tubas of the short, fat persuasion. The Conn 56J or King 2341 come to mind, except that the valves are on the diagonal, ala the older Conns. It's a smallish 4/4 tuba with a 20" bell and three valves. It plays rather well, considering it was intended as a relatively cheap student instrument. Does that ring a bell with your recollection of that photograph?
I would definitely be interested in a 6/4-size instrument like what Brian is prototyping. I'd like something that's easier to schlep than the Holton for outdoor gigs.
Rick "thinking these have earned serious consideration" Denney
I remember seeing what I think was a Reynolds fiberglass tuba in Dillon Music one time. I don't know if they were a regular factory item, but at least one was made.
I played on a Reynolds in Longview, Washington years ago! It had a detachable recording bell! It played like a "good" 'glass Susaphone ( I had an early King I sold to a Tubenetter in AZ)! The plastic tuba is very intriguing! If the material is proprietary, I understand. But the density/hardness of the bugle would seem to be the determining factor in the sound vs. Brass. I remember a recent thread touching on the subject... If the material is a PVC type plastic, I do have a little up close and personal experience with that material. In my day job as a Steamfitter/Pipefitter, I have glued, screwed, and bent a LOT of PVC (and it's cousin, CPVC ) at places like Intel. We routinely use metal reinforced Male and Female threaded adaptors for glue to screw connections. These fittings might be too thick in the 6' or so size one might need for the bell flaire joint, but may be practical closer to the mouthpeice...If the material is some sort of PVC, than clear is way more brittle than white or gray. we use industrial strength "hair dryers" to heat smaller bends to malleable temperature. Clear is easier to heat to temp because one can see the material turn opaque before it's been scorched or over heated. It does take quite a blow to fracture clear PVC, but it takes considerably more force to damage white or gray material... I am not familiar with the characteristics of Lexan, other than its reputation as a durable plastic. I'm pretty sure that most plastics can be succesfully bent using fairly simple dies, but it would take quite a bit of trial and error finalizing shape and contour of the dies, and contorrling temperature to ensure quality, and there might also be an issue with removal of the finished peice!
Sign me up for the first run! And how 'bout a rotary version, then an Eb or F?
I very well could be mis-remembering, regardless I believe it is a leak at a node. 
You just need the right contacts and marketing. The Brits already have the market on the p-bones, why cant we have the market on p-tubas? These would be great for schools and good for the local economy 
