Advice please

[76tbone]

Like a fool I bought a vintage Boosey Euph, compensating, bell up, 3 valves up , 1 valve side--off of Craigslist. The thing had a silver replating so it looks nice, but alas it plays like garbage. It sounds like blowing into a horn with the valves not in the right cylinders. Stuffy, so non-centered that you have to lip force the note, undefined, etc...The fourth valve notes aren't even blowable. First valve is almost as bad. Doesn't appear to have any leaks in the tubing anywhere. The valves seems to fit tight enough, but they've been burnished to a bright brass color. I thought that the valves may be replacements from another horn, but it doesn't look like that. Could it be that they were buffed down too much? I'm baffled why the sound quality is so excrutiatingly poor.
Paid for it via Paypal so eventually hope to win the dispute. But thinking ahead if I don't, does anyone have any experience with this issue? Do the valves need replating? Is there anything I can do to get this horn to play decently, and how much do you think it'd cost? Thanks in advance for your help.

[76tbone]

Just to add to this crazy story...I paid for the horn using Paypal and the seller dropped it off at my home--my wife accepted the delivery. I did not play test the horn until he had gone. Yes, I've learned from my mistake!!

[tclements]

Sounds like one of a few things, check these first:

1 - are the valves in the right place? Many horns can play with the valves switched.
2 - somthing STUCK in the horn? take it to a repair guy
3 - are the valves ALIGNED? take it to a repair guy
4 - leaks? take it to a repair guy

NO horn should play THAT badly.

[iiipopes]

I bought a trumpet off ebay and it was stuffy. The guy had accidentally switched #2 and #3, probably 30 years ago when he was still in school, and never knew why he sounded so bad, got frustrated, quit band, left the horn in the closet, and finally cleared it out. After going through it and getting the valves back, and a little minor maintenance, it plays great!

Check all the above. I'm sure it's fine, just needs TLC.

[76tbone]

Thanks for the suggestions. I found that the inner cylinders had numbers on them. The third valve cylinder was in the first valve casing. Switching them still doesn't improve the sound. The first valve cylinder fits a bit too tight in the third valve casing, so it will need work. But again, the sound's crappy. Open valves produce a nice sound, so I know there's not leaks in the rest of the horn. At least there's some hope that the horn can be put back into playing condition with valve adjustment, right?

[tclements]

I'd send it to Bloke....

[SousaSaver]

The first valve cylinder fits a bit too tight in the third valve casing, so it will need work. But again, the sound's crappy. Open valves produce a nice sound, so I know there's not leaks in the rest of the horn. At least there's some hope that the horn can be put back into playing condition with valve adjustment, right?

What? It doesn't matter how the first piston fits into the third casing because it doesn't go there.

A nice sound in the open valves doesn't mean that there aren't leaks in the rest of the horn.

I have worked on a few of these horns. I suspect that the valves are copper, and probably good and worn out. Your horn will definitely need a valve alignment, which can dramatically improve the response of the instrument.

Even if you don't have leaks in the solder joints, it is possible to have leaks from water key corks or loose tuning slides.

Check that stuff and see if you get an improvement.

[SousaSaver]

NO horn should play THAT badly.

Who knows? It might play that badly. Some of those old Boosey horns are PLAYED OUT and just dont' have it anymore. On the other hand, I have adjusted a few, tightened some slides and used a heavy valve oil to produce some pretty killer horns.

[Dan Schultz]

NO horn should play THAT badly.

Who knows? It might play that badly. Some of those old Boosey horns are PLAYED OUT and just dont' have it anymore. On the other hand, I have adjusted a few, tightened some slides and used a heavy valve oil to produce some pretty killer horns.

Worn plating on a compensating horn equals perhaps TWICE the negative effect simply because so many more areas have to be sealed when valves are pressed. The open bugle might play 'sorta bad' but tolerable. Pressing down valves just compounds the problem.

That being said... I'm not a fan of compensating horns because (to me) they feel less responsive and 'stuffy' (there's that word that has no good definition). BTW... 'compensating' does just mean that it has a 4th valve 'on the side'. Compensating means the horn has those funky little 'extra' tubes on the valve section that add tubing when more than one valve is pressed.

[76tbone]

The bell diameter is a little over 9.5 inches. No spit valves exist on this model. No signs of aftermarket modifications except for the valve buttons and felts. Again thanks for the continued comments. BRSousa: I sent you some detailed pictures.

[76tbone]

Ouch. Anderson's Plating wants 250 to disassemble the valves and a hundred bucks per opening on the valves to rebuild and align, which would put the total close to 2500. Didn't expect that shocker. Not that I'm criticizing their price at all. It's just light years away from my expectation of the repair cost.

[PMeuph]

Although this ties in to the Valve Alignment... Have you tried to see how the valves line up? What do the felts look like? This is surely an oversimplification, but I have one of these and just making sure that felts are the right thickness usually helps a bit. Also, the valve buttons might be part of the problem... These old horns had that were very shallow. That could affect how the depressed piston ends up aligning with the openings. (Try to remove the valve button and play with the stem. One valve at a time, you might notice that it feels more open if it is a few millimeters from the top of the cap... or not... at least this is an inexpensive method to check...)

[tbn.al]

"Phil, your life's a do-over."

Any questions?'

Yes. When did you start reading Don Carpenter?