Most recent ITEC Journal

[opus37]

I found Rick Denny's comments thoughtful and constructive. I totally agree with him. Thank you for your post.

Joe had a bad experience. I have worked with boards and committees for years. They are run by who shows up (and they usually have an agenda). In the case sited, the director obviously wanted to travel for free. He found a way to do that. If you don't agree, you have a choice, Joe made the right choice. It usually isn't worth the fight (unless it is really important).

[toobagrowl]

We've gone off topic on this thread, but what else is new, right?

I let my membership laps after college. For whatever reason I re-joined about 2 years ago. So far, I've thrown all the journals away...most without reading a single article since NOTHING stood out to interest me. Every journal is the same...first we talk about all the great people that have done great things....interestingly enough, these are all college profs.....or students of college profs....the SAME people over and over.

Next, we read about a conference....one that was run spectacularly well by.....a college professor.

We'll usually get an article about one of the greats in the field....written by a professor or soon to be professor.

Then, we get the reviews....oh...the reviews. Now, here, we don't hear from the college crowd as much....now we get the DMA candidates....these are the guys that hope to soon be college professors. The reviews are terrible. I appreciate knowing the range and sometimes the style and length of the piece, but really every description sounds the same!!!! (Lyrical this...technical challenge that....blah, blah, blah.) We don't even know how the reviewer came to their conclusions....did they play the piece at all, just sight read through it, perform it? If it's such a great work, lets hear some of it....turn on the Edirol or Zoom and post a few clips to the net. Let's see the first page....SOMETHING....ANYTHING has to be better than the crap that is in every journal.

Toward the back we'll get a decent article that people that are in college or don't plan to go back might have some use for, then we get pages of recital programs. Great! I love to know how many times the Vaughan Williams has been played in the past three months!!!!

The journal has really become a joke. It's only use is for someone that needs tenure to have a place to see themselves published. What's so interesting to me is that ITEA has completely moved away from one of Jake's biggest lessons.....this should be about being a musician, not about being a tuba player! If an article couldn't be used in any other journal that deals with education or musicality, then it doesn't belong in print. End of story.

I am so thankful that my subscription is about to run out...it's done at the end of this month, and so am I.

+1. Couldn't have said it any better. Glad I let my membership expire YEARS ago

[LARSONTUBA]

To those of you that are fed up with ITEA, why don't YOU do something to change it? Have you contacted Dr. Pierce or Dr. Swoboda or Dr. Zerkel to voice your concerns?

Of course ITEA is mostly students and professors. The university is where a majority of tuba/euph stuff is happening in this country. Our association is unique when compared to the professional associations of other brass instruments in that our membership has a large number of amateurs. Other instrument associations do not. We are lucky for that!

How about making a list of 10 things you would like to see articles written on. Post it here on TubeNet. As a DMA student, I would love to know what people want to read and would welcome the input. I'm sure ITEA, the journal, the board, etc would all be welcoming too.

The ultimate goal that is far to often overlooked is that MUSIC is primarily what we are promoting. Not ourselves, not our instrument, not our university, orchestra, community band, etc. MUSIC, which has the power to change perspectives and give us all glimpses into the deepest parts of our brief and precious existence on this planet, is what we are all seeking to elevate. The musical experiences that we all love and seek to recreate thru performance and teaching is what we are all after.

Posting your dissatisfaction here on TubeNet is the same as posting a status update on facebook. It is the shining example of what I call 'slacktivism' in that you feel like you've done something about it, but you haven't.

If you don't like it, do something to help change it. Don't complain about it on a message board.

[Biggs]

To those of you that are fed up with ITEA, why don't YOU do something to change it? Have you contacted Dr. Pierce or Dr. Swoboda or Dr. Zerkel to voice your concerns?

Yes, I have contacted ITEA leadership with an offer to help. I was turned away.

[Mark]

The university is where a majority of tuba/euph stuff is happening in this country.

Maybe from your limited perspective. I think a count of amateur and pre-college student tuba players would prove you wrong.

[Mark]

The ultimate goal that is far to often overlooked is that MUSIC is primarily what we are promoting. Not ourselves, not our instrument, not our university, orchestra, community band, etc. MUSIC, which has the power to change perspectives and give us all glimpses into the deepest parts of our brief and precious existence on this planet, is what we are all seeking to elevate. The musical experiences that we all love and seek to recreate thru performance and teaching is what we are all after.

Show us the vote tallies for the name change.

[Mark]

Posting your dissatisfaction here on TubeNet is the same as posting a status update on facebook. It is the shining example of what I call 'slacktivism' in that you feel like you've done something about it, but you haven't.

If you don't like it, do something to help change it. Don't complain about it on a message board.

So, are you starting your own tuba-related message board or are you just expressing your dissatisfaction with Tubenet?

[king2ba]

Though, "voting with your feet" is also effective. When things collapse, it usually garners more attention.

Look Larry! We totally agree on something! Has that ever happened before? LOL!

[Michael Bush]

I also understand that several people receive compensation from ITEA, not just one.

Others are indeed compensated. I'm paid $12 per year to help with fund development (though I'd do it for free).

[Michael Bush]

At the end of the day, ITEA just has to keep, earn, or re-earn (depending on who you are) a reputation for being a useful, valuable organization in the tuba-euphonium community. Clearly, with some, that is going to mean digging out of a hole. For others, not so much.

But no matter what, it is simply true that the board has been expanded recently to include people from a broader spectrum of members. And I believe it is correct to say all the staff are new in the last month except Jason (who remains the web editor). These changes mean things *are* going to be different in the near future no matter what. Perhaps not better in everyone's eyes, but for the organization not to be different, and soon, would be nearly impossible. At least some of those changes will be hard to miss. So please at least keep your eyes open and see what comes.

Second, what Rick says is true: Inevitably, ITEA, like any membership organization, does and will serve mainly those who show up. How could it be otherwise? So if you have an idea about how it could be the professional organization you wish you had, show up and talk about it. Obviously, not every idea is going to be adopted. But there certainly will be changes for better or worse shortly, and not a single one of those changes will arise from an idea no one suggested.

It's going to be interesting to see what happens. I think many people are going to be pleased if some of the ideas that are percolating come to fruition.

[LARSONTUBA]

At the end of the day, ITEA just has to keep, earn, or re-earn (depending on who you are) a reputation for being a useful, valuable organization in the tuba-euphonium community. Clearly, with some, that is going to mean digging out of a hole. For others, not so much.

But no matter what, it is simply true that the board has been expanded recently to include people from a broader spectrum of members. And I believe it is correct to say all the staff are new in the last month except Jason (who remains the web editor). These changes mean things *are* going to be different in the near future no matter what. Perhaps not better in everyone's eyes, but for the organization not to be different, and soon, would be nearly impossible. At least some of those changes will be hard to miss. So please at least keep your eyes open and see what comes.

Second, what Rick says is true: Inevitably, ITEA, like any membership organization, does and will serve mainly those who show up. How could it be otherwise? So if you have an idea about how it could be the professional organization you wish you had, show up and talk about it. Obviously, not every idea is going to be adopted. But there certainly will be changes for better or worse shortly, and not a single one of those changes will arise from an idea no one suggested.

It's going to be interesting to see what happens. I think many people are going to be pleased if some of the ideas that are percolating come to fruition.

Nicely worded. In reference to your last sentence, I would like to know what ideas are percolating, especially from the "disenfranchised" that frequent this forum. As I said before, ITEA, the board, teachers, and students of all ages would benefit from these ideas being vocalized and brought to attention, rather than mentioned in passing on a message board or not mentioned at all.

[Tubadork]

Wow.... All this because of Bill's photobomb.

RC

The face that launched a thousand posts.

[Mark]

I think if the concept "professional" is taken away from the word "organization", T.U.B.A. (and it's little magazines-in-the-mail) will - once again - win the hearts of tuba players.

[Rick Denney]

Second, what Rick says is true: Inevitably, ITEA, like any membership organization, does and will serve mainly those who show up.

Well, that's not exactly what I said. I said that it is an open question with an answer that is not obvious. Should an organization serve only those who show up, or should it serve those who it would like to show up?

When I say the answer is not obvious, what I mean is that it is important to ask the question, and think carefully about the answer. That is my recommendation to the new board. Once they decide who they want to serve, then they can write down scenarios of how that service would be used by those target audiences. Once those scenarios are written down (and if the process is going to work, writing it down is important--that becomes the basis for consensus), then requirements for what the Journal must do (and the conferences, the membership services, and so on) can be articulated and written down.

Then, you bring in editors and authors who are experts in crafting and presenting information, and get them to respond to those requirements.

So, it's not just bringing in representatives of target audiences for the expanded board. It is also providing a directed, objectives-driven process to take their knowledge of that target audience and turn it into services for that target audience. Maybe it follows the process I outlined, or maybe it follows another process. Doesn't matter. What matters is that outcomes are connected to objectives, so that consensus doesn't happen by accident.

Even more important, and one that directly traces to both Dale's and Joe's comments, is that consensus does not equal lack of disagreement. If those who might disagree stay away for whatever reason, then those who remain do not constitute a consensus. In fact, that outcome demonstrates a lack of consensus. Consensus is when all the stakeholders agree with a plan that serves all the stakeholders. Stakeholders who are not present undermine any hope of achieving a consensus, if the mission is supposed to include those stakeholders. In any organization, some stakeholders are there only to be served, in response to paying dues. Other stakeholders achieve their specific goals by participating. Complaining that the former is not showing up is a violation of their appropriate role, which is to receive what others do in return for paying dues. Will a hobbyist write articles? Not often, and expecting them to is not what they need and it's not their role. Their role is to read articles written by those whose role is to write articles. That's why it's so important to understand those roles.

Rick "who deals with stakeholder consensus every day" Denney

[graybach]

"peer review"...??
"scholarly"...??

Seriously, it's a bunch of tuba players.

We make fart sounds into hug brass cones while we mash on buttons...It's funny, and (often) it's supposed to be funny. (I disagree with Harvey Phillips in this regard.)

Maybe (??) they're all dead now, but (from the "old days" of the TUBA Journal) I kinda liked the interviews of old farts who played in traveling bands, circus bands, etc. and pictures of weird old tubas. Could those those sorts of articles be supplemented by (as it is a print media) websites that have additional pictures or short movie clips that relate to the articles? ...probably.

Some might see this as "who cares" stuff, but I even recently enjoyed Dave Werden's project of comparing and contrasting the out-of-tune tendencies of various models of euphoniums. ' completely scientific? It can't be, but it's meaningful, informative, and interesting to folks shopping for euphoniums.

If something is interesting to YOU (the person who submits something, and does their best with it), it MIGHT (??) be interesting to other people.

Bloke,
THANK YOU. Well-put. The precursor to TUBA started when Bill Bell would hold court with a group of tuba enthusiasts in McSorley's Ole Ale House in NYC. We are a bunch of tuba players, and we like to have fun. What's academic about that? I vehemently disagree with the notion that our journal has to be "scholarly." I have always enjoyed the journal and have enjoyed watching how it has improved since I first started getting it in 1992. It has plenty of info and I use it as a tool to keep up with the tuba world. Is it a "fix-all?" No. I supplement my journal reading with Tubenet and some other websites. But I believe the journal staff does a great job at serving all involved even as the academic crowd tries to make us like every other instrument out there. I believe that part of our (tuba players) appeal is that we ARE different, our instruments and definitely our personalities. I remember my first Army Band Tuba-Euphonium Conference in which the announcer for the Army Band Grand Concert said that he was impressed with the friendliness and camaraderie of the tuba players, more so than other instruments.
I see no reason to be like everyone else. We are tuba players, and we should act like it. If that embarrasses you, play something else...
Gray Bach

[bisontuba]

Hi-
I think(?) TUBA was changed to ITEA to try to conform more to groups like the trumpet group -ITG AND--more importantly, to include our euphonium players in name. If baritone/euphonium/tenor tuba players don't mind being called tuba players, fine. But if you want inclusion, Int'l TUBA EUPHONIUM Assoc. gives euphonium players that. Maybe TubeNet need to change its name to EuphTubeNet or BariTubaNet or TenBassTubaNet or LowEndNet or TheFolkswiththeBigHornsNet or ..............

mark

[Michael Bush]

Do you guys understand that some people need there to be a scholarly element in the journal for their work?

I get it that you're probably also against tenure, but even if you eliminate tenure and go to a contract system in higher education (because something has to protect academic freedom) there is still going to be a requirement of peer reviewed publication in the evaluation process for renewal. Not everyone has this need. But a significant constituency does have it.

Given that in addition to serving your interests, the journal also has a constituency who need a peer review option, can you think of a better system than the current one where some articles are noted as peer reviewed? (I think it is safe to say that two different publications is not a viable financial option at the moment.)

[Michael Bush]

I personally don't care about providing (by paying membership dues or subscription fees) a venue for people to receive tenure points, I just would like more credible info and less of the blatant plagiarism in the "journals" and "newsletters," electronic or otherwise, I take the time to read.

Okay. Fair enough. The best mechanism I can think of for making sure info is (at least) credible is peer review.

Can you think of a single membership organization whose journal you can receive by subscription without being a paying member or a library (paying much more)?

[Michael Bush]

Can you think of a single membership organization whose journal you can receive by subscription without being a paying member or a library (paying much more)?

You lost me here... Not sure what you're asking. Clarify, if you'd like...

BUT, any organization I pay to join, whether the dues are $20 or $500, I expect them to be responsible with what info they present to their membership.

Well, it just sounded to me like you felt paying membership dues or subscription fees entitled you not to have to put up with peer reviewed articles, and that somehow receiving it without paying would make it tolerable. I see I must have misunderstood.

[TonyTuba]

I personally don't care about providing (by paying membership dues or subscription fees) a venue for people to receive tenure points, I just would like more credible info and less of the blatant plagiarism in the "journals" and "newsletters," electronic or otherwise, I take the time to read.

Okay. Fair enough. The best mechanism I can think of for making sure info is (at least) credible is peer review.

Can you think of a single membership organization whose journal you can receive by subscription without being a paying member or a library (paying much more)?

NABBA- The Brass Band Bridge is a free online newsletter and is great. That, like the Journal, relies on submissions for content. I suspect that if more diverse articles are submitted, more wold be printed.

Who cares what you call it. Fact is, ITEA does a whole lotta good in promoting the tuba and euphonium. It may not cater to exactly what YOU(in general, not specific to the responding quote here...) may be looking for. It may just not be able to. But it does move us forward.